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Banned Vendors and Products

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  #1  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:29 PM
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Here's the deal, we've seen many people getting upset with how we've handled the censorship of certain products. Apparently some of the members here are upset that not only do we censor the names of the products themselves, but also the workaround names and nicknames you try to use for those products.

So if it isn't obvious, the products themselves have been banned, so workarounds come off as an actual offense. Not only do you know its wrong, you are trying to get around it. Its not acceptable.

Now sure, you think why cant you talk about these vendors if they are good to buy from?

We have rules here that vendors must follow, even the supporting ones. So when one vendor libels against another and has a long list of priors do we allow this to happen with no punishment? Of course not. That vendor was suspended. We were discussing further action when he decided to open up another forum of his own. He then solicited members, including mods, to the site.

I was even asked to be an admin for his new new site.

So basically, instead of a temporary suspension, he ended up getting a full on ban. He then had his newer members come on our site and spam and stir shit up if you will. That lasted for a while and was dealt with. But now it seems they are trying to celebrate their anniversary by doing the same childish actions all over again. Its simple for the members and mods here to handle, they let us know, we ban, its all done, but honestly, i think everyone would be happier, even those spammers, if they just kept to themselves. Its not like they are doing anything but providing incentive not to join a site with childish members. Bad PR if you ask me...

We pride ourselves as being the only major hookah forum that is not directly owned by a vendor. Their job is to make money. We don't have jobs on this site. We do what we do because we love hookah and want to make sure everyone gets the information they need to enjoy hookah whilst feeling welcome in a friendly online environment.

So what about their products? Other vendors carry their products so it should be cool right?

No. While the vendors wont be held in any negative light, we still refuse to mention those products. The thing is that its still publicity for the banned vendor and free advertising of their product on this site.

Their members come on here and TC and start crap. Even today we just banned a member named NickFTW who recently joined, had no posts, and went straight to the chat room to start shit. His first 10 posts were ban worthy alone. He was banned just like the others...

So basically, we have no issue removing anything that promotes a banned vendor that encourages his members to come here and start fights.

Its not like he doesn't have a large list of banned vendors. One of our supporting vendors is banned on his site for selling tobacco, coals, and km hookahs for less than he does. His animosity with our supporting vendor started well before he was banned here for that same reason.

Its not a freedom of speech issue, its a self respect issue. You can buy from them as much as you want, but on this community, for the sake of this community, you do not let someone spit in your face and get away with it.

We choose to handle other forums simply. We will not allow them to be discussed, either negatively or positively on this site. No promotion or defamation. If you feel this post has been pretty defaming, remember who broke the rules and who continues to spam our site and TC room. We are just making everyone aware of the reasoning of our stance.

We know there are members that frequent both sites, that's fine. We know their administration/moderator crew has lurker accounts, that's fine. We know their spammers lurk on here for a while before doing their thing. (It's pretty obvious when you have a member with 0 posts for several months viewing the threads and then finally breaking and posting spam for the banned vendor and his site)

We are not ashamed of admitting the truth and they are welcome to hear about it any way they please.

We are leaving this as a sticky and its open to civil discussion. Because its hard to discuss this subject without making references to the above content, this thread will allow those references. However, do not mention the vendor, vendor's site, vendor's product, or vendor's forum/marketing site by name.

Edit: Sambooka's announcement and cause for dismissal of the aforementioned banned vendor:

http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showt...ht=john+banned
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Last edited by photolinger; December 28th, 2011 at 02:22 AM.
  #2  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:36 PM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

maybe a list of banned vendors would help? What about the vendors that sell the same product as a banned vendor?
  #3  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Me being new here, what I find weird is that I wouldn't know who a banned vendor is. When I see a banned vendor declaration, the vendors name is ******* out. How would new members know who the banned vendors are?
  #4  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:39 PM
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Maybe we can get a list of these banned vendors/ products and a reason why for the ban?
I'm curious on who and why they were deemed ban worthy. Also I don't want to make the mistake of talking about them.
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  #5  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:46 PM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Honestly, the way its been agreed upon is that if a new member does not know, and mentions it, we remove the mention and inform them via pm.

To my knowledge the other vendors aren't even around anymore. And if they are, well, we haven't had to deal with accidental mentions of them in over 2-3 years it seems. They were banned for scamming members. The most recent banned vendor got his ban for breaking HP rules. We have a much smaller list than he does :P.
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  #6  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:52 PM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Having a list of banned vendors would be a form of advertisement for them, no? People would see the list and naturally be curious and check them out.
  #7  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:55 PM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMCarnochan View Post
Having a list of banned vendors would be a form of advertisement for them, no? People would see the list and naturally be curious and check them out.
exactly, want a good list of vendors to check out, how about the vendor section, start with our supporting ones.
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  #8  
Old December 27th, 2011, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMCarnochan
Having a list of banned vendors would be a form of advertisement for them, no? People would see the list and naturally be curious and check them out.
Wow. Never even thought of that. Good point.
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  #9  
Old December 28th, 2011, 01:01 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

amen. i get annoyed eveytime i see people trying to get around the rules here. we try to keep it classy, they dont...why we are the better forum and why i only have my allegiance here. do i 100% agree with every little thing this forum does, no. but nothing is perfect. before i had this forum i would search on other forum and they were very childish. were here we give and get great info, friends, and a place were real hookah pros come socialize
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  #10  
Old December 28th, 2011, 01:21 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Quote:
Originally Posted by ovation4what View Post
amen. i get annoyed eveytime i see people trying to get around the rules here. we try to keep it classy, they dont...why we are the better forum and why i only have my allegiance here. do i 100% agree with every little thing this forum does, no. but nothing is perfect. before i had this forum i would search on other forum and they were very childish. were here we give and get great info, friends, and a place were real hookah pros come socialize
While we appreciate the support please don't speak ill of other forums. We try to keep the peace and make sure that our forum doesn't encourage or harbor animosity and drama.

Thanks for the compliment though.
  #11  
Old December 28th, 2011, 01:40 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

I still believe a list of banned vendors and the reasoning why they're banned needs inclusion. Doesn't matter that it's advertising for them, it's hard to follow the rules when you don't know them.
On the matter of vendors: since it was ignored in the elite section, has anything been brought up to deal with vendors who follow rules but shouldn't be viewed as trusted? This is the most pressing issue in my mind.
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Old December 28th, 2011, 01:45 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Quote:
Originally Posted by photolinger View Post
To my knowledge the other vendors aren't even around anymore.
photolinger is correct. Our list of banned vendors is 4 or 5 vendors long. All of them are out of business but 1.
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  #13  
Old December 28th, 2011, 01:45 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

i, as an unknowing individual, mentioned a banned product/vendor and noticed only a day after that my post was edited. i received no pm, and instead wrote one back to the mod trying to figure out the details of the situation besides the obvious that it was censored..

indeed i would not want to inadvertently mention a banned vendor's name.. and assuming there are more than one in particular.. i am certainly trying to be careful. having a publicly posted list would certainly we counter-intuitive and even might start unnecessary drama... the only thing would be to place a watchful eye on the forums.. censoring as necessary.. and making sure that the individual knows that they made a mistake.

as long as the mods/admin know that it might've been mentioned mistakenly... as most times those people who stir and create drama by mentioning them.. are a little bit more obvious.
  #14  
Old December 28th, 2011, 01:48 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Sambooka's post regarding a certain banned vendor is still floating around HP...gives a very detailed account of why action was taken. I encourage all curious individuals to read. Perhaps it deserves a sticky if it isn't already.

http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showt...ht=john+banned

I don't find HP's rules regarding these matters to be unfair, nor the response inappropriate.
  #15  
Old December 28th, 2011, 01:53 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

^^ well.. that certainly helps explain a lot of things.. thank you for the link.
  #16  
Old December 28th, 2011, 02:52 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

I agree with photolinger 100%. I've been a regular user of the chat box and this trolling bullshit has to stop! I can't stand to see trolls from wherever they come from cause hell in a great community .
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  #17  
Old December 28th, 2011, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMCarnochan
Having a list of banned vendors would be a form of advertisement for them, no? People would see the list and naturally be curious and check them out.
Exactly when I first got on here and read about a certain vendor with the second word starting with "j" I immediately checked their website out
  #18  
Old December 28th, 2011, 03:06 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark8n View Post
Exactly when I first got on here and read about a certain vendor with the second word starting with "j" I immediately checked their website out
I could totally agree with this though... Informing members about vendors and why they may or may not have been banned could serve not only as a warning to other vendors or members but as a warning as to why people have either had problems with orders or if the vendor acted irresponsibly.
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  #19  
Old December 28th, 2011, 03:13 AM
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But even if mods did that it would kinda be intimidating to newbies and I'm sure that even though their banned it doesn't make them horrible vendors it's just that we do not support their actions and have to take actions to push people to vendors we trust
  #20  
Old December 28th, 2011, 08:57 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

I can see banning a vendor's account here, but banning members from mentioning his name and even to go so far as his products seems odd, and most of us members who use those products think it's a poor rule. After all, if there were a vendor who were banned for ripping people off, other members would find out about the character of that vendor, and if that vendor were mentioned we would all jump in and say, "no! that vendor is no good!" But to ban us from even talking about it is either to say 1.) you don't know how to protect yourself from rip-off vendors so we are doing it for you, or 2.) we are going to do everything in our power to prevent this vendor from getting business because he broke our website rules.

i personally like the 'banned vendor' coals and bowl. they're what i prefer to use, and it's a pity i can't tell others about them because it's against the rules, for one of the 2 reasons above.

it may be time to have some serious discussion about revising the hookahpro rules on this matter.

just my 2 cents.
  #21  
Old December 28th, 2011, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Thank you for the very clear explanation of the situation. The fact that this website acts to protect its members is one reason why I've come to enjoy it here.
  #22  
Old December 28th, 2011, 10:10 AM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

i have to agree with againuntodust. banning the vendor fine but to be stopped from mentioning his products that lots of other vendors carry and may other members recommend is a pity. the products are good and people should know about them. As a community we want to know what we like and what we dont.
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  #23  
Old December 28th, 2011, 11:52 AM
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Again it's an issue of promoting the products of someone who will go out of their way to ruin the browsing experience of this site. I doubt they will be growing up anytime soon so I wouldn't expect the product to be discussed anytime soon.
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  #24  
Old December 28th, 2011, 12:23 PM
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Lightbulb Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Heh, I remember once when I was discussing Santino's glass company with a poorly-chosen acronym: I got a slap on the wrist pm for "mentioning a banned vendor". At first, I was confused because I saw a Crown Hookahs banner on the forum We quickly figured out where the disconnect was, it was actually kind of funny. So that was my introduction to the banned vendor system.

Since the mods around here don't swing the ban-hammer until AT LEAST ONE round of due process, and every instance is viewed as a separate incident (within reason) -- the system seems like the best compromise. I doubt the majority of new users will ever even encounter the issue, and those that do can be educated appropriately behind the scenes like I was. I didn't feel chastised, if anything I felt like I was finally in on some sort of forum wide 'inside joke'!
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  #25  
Old December 28th, 2011, 12:35 PM
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Default Re: Banned Vendors and Products

Quote:
Originally Posted by gagli011 View Post
Sambooka's post regarding a certain banned vendor is still floating around HP...gives a very detailed account of why action was taken. I encourage all curious individuals to read. Perhaps it deserves a sticky if it isn't already.

http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showt...ht=john+banned

I don't find HP's rules regarding these matters to be unfair, nor the response inappropriate.
this is very good! lots of info and if you NEED to know what happened just read up
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