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Overpacking and underpacking

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  #1  
Old December 11th, 2011, 07:58 AM
Tomokka
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Default Overpacking and underpacking

Hey all!

I have been having a problem with my shisha burning and getting harsh. I always packed the shisha loosely and well under the rim. I got very frustrated with the burning and as a last attempt decided to overpack the shisha in my bowl and packing it quite tight under the rim. The weird thing was that this way the shisha didnt seem to burn as fast. Naturally i messed up by using too few holes and messing the air flow, but as i said the shisha didnt burn as fast. I cant really understand how its possible to have more shisha higher and tighter and have it burn less than packing it loose and low. I was wondering is there some kind of reason or was it just a coincidence?
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  #2  
Old December 11th, 2011, 08:50 AM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Light a fire, throw one 100gr. piece of meat in it, and one Kilo piece.
What will burn faster?

I am using less tobacco when I want to smoke smaller sessions, I get the same flavor, no burns, the only downside is it can be harsh the first 2-3 minutes, until I accommodate the coals, everything is fine afterthat.
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  #3  
Old December 11th, 2011, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafmaf View Post
Light a fire, throw one 100gr. piece of meat in it, and one Kilo piece.
What will burn faster?

I am using less tobacco when I want to smoke smaller sessions, I get the same flavor, no burns, the only downside is it can be harsh the first 2-3 minutes, until I accommodate the coals, everything is fine afterthat.
Sorry i should have been more clear. My point was that with overpacking the smoke doesnt get harsh unless there was way too much heat. With less shisha the smoke got harsh no matter what i did with the temperature.
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  #4  
Old December 11th, 2011, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Exactly... I get harsh smoke with less tobacco too, but it goes away after 2-3 sometimes 5 minutes... (I have mentioned)

It's because tobacco requires certain amount of heat to smoke fine, and with less tobacco the amount of minimal heat you have to put there, overrides it.

If you have too many coals with less tobacco, it will be harsh, if you have less you won't get flavor or smoke... so it is very specific and it requires experience to have a good session with 3/4 empty bowl, to get decent clouds, not harsh, and full flavor.

The best decision is to get tiny bowl.

You cannot smoke 1gr of tobacco with a sparkle, but the difference when smoking 20gr or 30gr won't be big when using same amount of coals...

I think you got it now.
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  #5  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Yeah i got it now, thanks for the reply. I just feel super dissapointed at the moment. I invested on an expensive km and i havent gotten it working once properly. Just feels like waisted a good bit of time and money. Whats the point of having your own pipe if you can never get it to work as good as in shisha bars? This community has been very helpfull, but i am kind of lost on what i should do now
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  #6  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:40 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

I am experiencing the same mate , got a km aswell working on getting it right as well !
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  #7  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:49 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

It just takes some sessions to get it down, I used to smoke cigars and pipes, but hookah is still more involved then those. Did some a little reading, watch some methods on youtube and you will be enjoying your session before you know it.
Something that I recently do now, is (usually) have two sheets of foil and give my tobacco at least 15 minutes just under the heat to warm up before smoking.
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  #8  
Old December 11th, 2011, 12:56 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by mafmaf View Post
Light a fire, throw one 100gr. piece of meat in it, and one Kilo piece.
What will burn faster?

I am using less tobacco when I want to smoke smaller sessions, I get the same flavor, no burns, the only downside is it can be harsh the first 2-3 minutes, until I accommodate the coals, everything is fine afterthat.
This makes a lot of sense +1 rep. It made me understand because I had the same problem. Just hate using so much tobacco, when they are pain to get hold of them cheap in europe lol.
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  #9  
Old December 11th, 2011, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

It seems I'm in the minority, but I've found great success with using the following setup:

Phunnel bowl
2 CH natural coals
one piece of heavy duty foil
hole pattern really doesn't matter
Usually Starbuzz and Fantasia (don't like or need any buzz, never had any problems with these brands)

I typically use very very little shisha at the bottom of the bowl, packed light to moderate. I use 2 coals on opposite ends of the bowl. I'm lazy and don't like to get up at all to move the coals, but rather want to enjoy the whole session without doing so. I've found that with the larger gap between the shisha and the foil/coals, you don't have to move any of the coals. Reason being I believe is that the gap provides a more uniform heat distribution going down to the coals, and the bowl itself provides the heat as well. So it doesn't matter where the coals really are, it stabilizes the heat in the entire bowl. Works for me, hopefully it could help someone else out there with any problems. I typically smoke for 45 minutes to an hour per session. Oh, and I usually start a session with a battery-powered Coleman air mattress pump for about 30-40 seconds, preheats the shisha and you don't have to waste 8-10 puffs getting it started . Don't laugh, it works lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomokka View Post
Hey all!

I have been having a problem with my shisha burning and getting harsh. I always packed the shisha loosely and well under the rim. I got very frustrated with the burning and as a last attempt decided to overpack the shisha in my bowl and packing it quite tight under the rim. The weird thing was that this way the shisha didnt seem to burn as fast. Naturally i messed up by using too few holes and messing the air flow, but as i said the shisha didnt burn as fast. I cant really understand how its possible to have more shisha higher and tighter and have it burn less than packing it loose and low. I was wondering is there some kind of reason or was it just a coincidence?

Last edited by Roadie; December 11th, 2011 at 01:13 PM.
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  #10  
Old December 11th, 2011, 01:28 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomokka
Just feels like waisted a good bit of time and money. Whats the point of having your own pipe if you can never get it to work as good as in shisha bars?
Go on YouTube and look up Packjng and setup videos hookah at home requires practice I get down, the reason most of us don't go to hookah bars is that in general most hookah bars are overpriced and are inexperienced. But mostly overpriced, for 17$ a bowl I can get alot more seshes out of it
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  #11  
Old December 11th, 2011, 01:30 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
It seems I'm in the minority, but I've found great success with using the following setup:

Phunnel bowl
2 CH natural coals
one piece of heavy duty foil
hole pattern really doesn't matter
Usually Starbuzz and Fantasia (don't like or need any buzz, never had any problems with these brands)

I typically use very very little shisha at the bottom of the bowl, packed light to moderate. I use 2 coals on opposite ends of the bowl. I'm lazy and don't like to get up at all to move the coals, but rather want to enjoy the whole session without doing so. I've found that with the larger gap between the shisha and the foil/coals, you don't have to move any of the coals. Reason being I believe is that the gap provides a more uniform heat distribution going down to the coals, and the bowl itself provides the heat as well. So it doesn't matter where the coals really are, it stabilizes the heat in the entire bowl. Works for me, hopefully it could help someone else out there with any problems. I typically smoke for 45 minutes to an hour per session. Oh, and I usually start a session with a battery-powered Coleman air mattress pump for about 30-40 seconds, preheats the shisha and you don't have to waste 8-10 puffs getting it started . Don't laugh, it works lol.
Can u post a picture of that ''gap'' Please?
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  #12  
Old December 11th, 2011, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neorej View Post
Can u post a picture of that ''gap'' Please?
I might be able to later tonight. I have a small Tangiers phunnel and use maybe a tablespoon or so of shisha, so the gap is quite a bit.
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  #13  
Old December 11th, 2011, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadie View Post
I might be able to later tonight. I have a small Tangiers phunnel and use maybe a tablespoon or so of shisha, so the gap is quite a bit.
I got a vortex XXL and 2 small mod's but i love to see a picture !
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  #14  
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:00 PM
Tomokka
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark8n View Post
Go on YouTube and look up Packjng and setup videos hookah at home requires practice I get down, the reason most of us don't go to hookah bars is that in general most hookah bars are overpriced and are inexperienced. But mostly overpriced, for 17$ a bowl I can get alot more seshes out of it
The thing that is so dissapointing to me is that i have follewed many examples from youtube and found that the results for me arent that good. Most of the time i just end up with harsh smoke, no matter what packing method, hole pattern or how many coals i use. I just dont understand how they did it in dubai. I mean they had like 4 burning red coals on top of the shisha for more than an hour and it didnt taste burned once and the flavor was great all the time.
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  #15  
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:06 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomokka View Post
The thing that is so dissapointing to me is that i have follewed many examples from youtube and found that the results for me arent that good. Most of the time i just end up with harsh smoke, no matter what packing method, hole pattern or how many coals i use. I just dont understand how they did it in dubai. I mean they had like 4 burning red coals on top of the shisha for more than an hour and it didnt taste burned once and the flavor was great all the time.
I experienced the same in Dubai , had a great time there btw
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  #16  
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:34 PM
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Try another layer of foil, sorry to the op of another thread but I forgot your name but give t a shot with double hd foil
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  #17  
Old December 11th, 2011, 02:52 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Reduce your coals or push them to the edge of your bowl. It sounds like you are overheating your tobacco. Most tobacco on the market should smoke just fine when loosely packed and not touching the foil.
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  #18  
Old December 11th, 2011, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
Reduce your coals or push them to the edge of your bowl. It sounds like you are overheating your toacco. Most tobacco on the market should smoke just fine when loosely packed and not touching the foil.
I usually start my session with 1 to 2 ql coals broken in to smaller parts and placed at the edges of the foil. I also use a homemade windcover. At this point i get little smoke that is quite harsh. Because of the bad smoke i rotate the coals quite often. The taste of the smoke stays pretty much the same during the whole session except when i move the coals to the centre and the smoke is good for a short while, before returning to normal. If i want big clouds i add more coals at some point, but what ever was left of the taste goes down the shitter.
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  #19  
Old December 11th, 2011, 03:17 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Just tried loose packing with the vortex xxl with 2 layers of foil with al fakher cocosnut coals without windcover , and i am experiencing good taste and some pretty good smoke .
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  #20  
Old December 11th, 2011, 03:18 PM
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Default

Good to hear
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  #21  
Old December 11th, 2011, 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Here are a few pictures of my setup, and one of my custom hookah base I found at Target. (actually a wine decanter for $9)





Homemade hole puncher:

Last edited by Roadie; December 11th, 2011 at 10:51 PM.
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  #22  
Old December 11th, 2011, 10:52 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Over packing only works on certain moassels like Nak, Tangiers, and Fantasia.
Under packing works extremely well for SB and AF, and anything else that is super heat sensitive.

That being said, anything is able cook evenly with the right amount of coals. Two to three naturals are all you really need and a wind cover couldnt hurt when the coals get small. Again, under or over packing shouldnt matter if you manage heat.
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It tasted like soap the whole time. He literally ran to the sink, put some soap in a bowl, added the shisha and mixed it all around. Then he rinsed it but not so well from what i tasted. He swore it was the best sesh ever. Never will i wash mine
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  #23  
Old December 11th, 2011, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

What size QL coals are we talking about? 40mm? 33mm? Two 40mm coals and a wind cover is too much heat. two coals alone is likely too much. I use two coconut coals on my Tangiers small for just about everything that isn't Tangiers. I would suggest 1.5 at the max. Split them in half and use one half per third of the bowl.

It looks to me like you are packing very little tobacco in that bowl which may be a part of it. It could be that you need more heat to get decent smoke because of the really shallow pack. By the time the bowl reaches the smoking point you have ticked over into burning your tobacco.

A good clay bowl is like a diesel engine. You want it to slowly reach optimal temp so that by the time the top layer of tobacco is used up the bowl is properly heated to keep smoking what it beneath.
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  #24  
Old December 11th, 2011, 11:51 PM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Using ql's make sure they are lit fully first and foremost. Second, try splitting one ql in half and trying that. Add a wind cover if needed if that doesn't work add another half of coal. It's better to add heat as needed to get it up to the proper temp rather than taking it away. Once it's burnt, it's burnt.
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  #25  
Old December 12th, 2011, 05:12 AM
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Default Re: Overpacking and underpacking

Thanks a lot again for all your suggestions. I will try to your suggestions in the coming days. Something else just came to my mind. If my hookah wasnt completely air tight, could it be the cause of some of the problems? When i got the hookah i had problems with my base grommet being way too tight, which is why i sanded it maybe a bit too much.
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