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Syrian Revolution Updates

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  #26  
Old February 17th, 2012, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Syrian Revolution Updates

I posted a picture and mentioned how it was released.
I then proceeded to say this:
"
You can argue whether or not you feel its doctored"

check, its still there.

I then said, that because of the regime's prior history, I can believe it.
Instead of pussyfooting around it, I'll go ahead and say, considering the conversations had with my family, my family's history with the government, and the unlawful arrest of my cousin who we haven't had contact with since his arrest, I dont believe this is some made up revolt by zionist and libyan powers. Yes, 600 libyans said they were coming over, yes zionists wouldnt mind seeing assad deposed, but the most important part of the equation is that the Assad regime has managed to use the country to take care of itself and not its people. Its terrorized people with its secret police, its massacred people before, it has made people conveniently disappear. It has protected the interests of a minority while ignoring that of the rest of the country. Please note the demographics of the country. 12% alawite, 90% of secruity body heads alawite.

I was there when they voted on the referendum to perpetuate the Assad dynasty. B I remember when the black mourning banners turned into banners of a smiling bashar. I remember how it only took 4 hours to tally a nation's worth of paper ballots.

Still, I remember hope that some people had since he was english educated and with german work experience, hoping that maybe he'd help advance the country. They thought, maybe if King 'Abdulla II was able to make some foward progress for Jordan.
(Also, note how Jordan, Syria's neighbor handled the Arab Spring. The King answered the calls of the protestors and how many reports have you heard about violence and government thugs attacking civillians etc?). Even Bashar's younger brothers and his family thought he would make forward changes for the country (backward changes for his.

Regardless, Bashar initially did nothing. He kept the status quo for a while. He allowed Chief of Staff Aslan, to retire and replaced him with Turkmani. The next change was in 04 when he promoted Turkmani to Minister of Defense to replace the 72 year old Talas. Turkmani's deputy took his old position of Chief of Staff.

For the most part he left the old regime mostly exactly the same as it was before with officials from Hafez's generation (some of the same officials that tried to kill off my grandfather)

Because he allowed all these officials to retire before making any changes, he was unable to do anything similar to his Jordanian counterpart in regards to reforming the government. He lacked a true loyal circle to make any positive changes, either out of choice or bad decisions. Regardless, he's not going to make those changes now. Great, he's going to hold a referendum vote to allow other political parties to vote. That might buy him another 3 months if nothing changes. So after 50 years, something other than the Baath party might legitimately exist in Syria. But then what? He's still a despot, and he'll still be in power.

The only thing he has been able to do is perpetuate a myth that without him the country will be in chaos with sectarian violence funded by fundamentalists in the region. Its the myth that those opposing reform keep parroting. Its the myth that countries with financial interests in the region parrot. Its the myth that those seeking a power play parrot.

It has been a slow moving movement. It took months for it to spread to Damascus and Aleppo. They were saying, what revolution? before it came to them. Its the same things the port towns of Tartus and Latakia are saying. It might take them a little longer with such strong Russian ties (not just the arms shipments) but they'll see it too. The second someone opens their mouth against the government publicly, the violence will begin there too.

Instead, we get pointless accusations of trying to destabalize the regime. Right now the UK is offering money to help civillians displaced by the violence. Sarkozy is asking people to unite behind a common cause because France cannot force a revolt. But instead you have people claiming that they are doing otherwise. They are claiming that no violence is happening. They claim footage (not even the aforementioned picture) is fake. Then when some of those videos seem to match the different districts of Homs especially in Baba Amr they start spewing the same lies scapegoating terrorists as the source of the violence.

My reasoning isn't blind faith in some zionist news machine, its the history of the regime. Its how they rose to power. Its how they violently wiped out their competition. Its how the violently massacred dissenters. Its their lies over the years. Not much in the Syrian government has changed since the 60s except the date on their calendars. Clearly their conscious has yet to suffer as their victims have.
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  #27  
Old February 17th, 2012, 08:50 PM
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Default Re: Syrian Revolution Updates

I'm not an expert on Middle Eastern politics, but can only hope and pray (and I do) that all will work out soon for ALL the people of the region. I do, however, have considerable experience and exposure to 4 countries of the former Soviet Union (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Moldova) which, dispite the reality that they have been freed of the Soviet tyrany, still struggle to find happiness, and prosperity for ALL their citizens. It's not because they are stupid or lazy. Far from it, but it is EXACTLY for the same reason that photolinger stated:
"XXXX regime has managed to use the country to take care of itself and not its people."

One regime can crumble , and despotic regime's inevitabally do, when citizens resolve to claim their right to self-determination, but true freedom is not reached until these same citizens figure out how to replace one despotic regime with a governmental system which is responsive to the needs of the people, NOT, as photolinger notes.."look out for themselves."

The despots also claim way more than they need to be happy, and the citizens suffer as a result. Greed is the primary root cause of all human suffering and is very difficult to irradicate. I am hopeful and optimistic that the people of Syria will be triumphant, and reclaim Syria for all Syrians. It is inevitable.
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  #28  
Old February 17th, 2012, 08:52 PM
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Time for a bit of clarification. Yes, I realize that the Ba'athist regime is authoritarian. No, I wouldn't want to live under it. Yes, I understand that large portion, perhaps even most, people that oppose it are patriots that would like to see another form of government. Yes, I realize that people have been unjustly persecuted by it and such matters should be condemned.

All of that being said the realities on the ground demonstrated thus far are:

1) A majority of Syrians support the Ba'athist regime. Some undoubtedly support the Ba'athists and/the various parties allied with them out of nationalism but I would imagine a larger portion support them simply as the lesser of two evils.
2) Even the openly hostile Arab League report found that the response of the state to attacks by foreign elements has been radically exaggerated and the endless tide of anti Ba'athist propaganda has been wildly inaccurate.
3) The FSA has been shown to led by Libyan Salafists, trained, equipped and directed by NATO in a proxy war on the Syrian state.
4) NATO/Israel and it's various proxies have openly declared a desire to topple the Ba'athists and are waging a proxy war against the Syrian state and if they win Syria will end up like Libya.
5) Syria is essentially a stepping stone for invading Iran and as a result it's a proxy battleground between NATO/Israel/GCC on the one side and Syria/Iran/China/Russia on the other. This is a good thing since it's the only way to prevent Syria turning into another Libya.
6) The State Department photos are bogus. It's been demonstrated and simply saying that you believe it because it's the sort of thing you think the state would do is very far from proof of having done it.
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  #29  
Old February 17th, 2012, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelsteele View Post
I'm not an expert on Middle Eastern politics, but can only hope and pray (and I do) that all will work out soon for ALL the people of the region. I do, however, have considerable experience and exposure to 4 countries of the former Soviet Union (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, and Moldova) which, dispite the reality that they have been freed of the Soviet tyrany, still struggle to find happiness, and prosperity for ALL their citizens. It's not because they are stupid or lazy. Far from it, but it is EXACTLY for the same reason that photolinger stated:
"XXXX regime has managed to use the country to take care of itself and not its people."

One regime can crumble , and despotic regime's inevitabally do, when citizens resolve to claim their right to self-determination, but true freedom is not reached until these same citizens figure out how to replace one despotic regime with a governmental system which is responsive to the needs of the people, NOT, as photolinger notes.."look out for themselves."

The despots also claim way more than they need to be happy, and the citizens suffer as a result. Greed is the primary root cause of all human suffering and is very difficult to irradicate. I am hopeful and optimistic that the people of Syria will be triumphant, and reclaim Syria for all Syrians. It is inevitable.
This vague talk inevitable triumph of something nice but never defined irks me greatly because that sort of blather is always coupled with a smug sense of American self righteousness used to justify "wars of democratization" which at best result in a different brand of authoritarian repression and usually one far worse after huge lose of live and misery that I doubt you can comprehend. This feel good soft imperialism couched in terms of "inevitability" is simply a cruder form of Soviet rhetoric about "historical determinism" and if you get around to reading up the subject you'd realize as much.

Setting aside that the evils of the Syrian state are wildly exaggerated to the point to where counter arguments simply are unknown in the West is that anyone that is moderately informed honest knows that the FSA is a vary odious collection of mercenaries, well meaning pawns and Salafist lunatics under the thumb of imperialist forces. But talk of such realities doesn't fit in with American pomposity and sound bites so it's denied.

I can't help but notice that the extremely well supported evidence to refute the official position of "lets bomb em' free" presented in this thread that challenge the cartoon good Vs evil claptrap that characterizes the media coverage of the conflict has been totally ignored. That indicates once again the old adage that those that have a sound argument present it.

Those that argued against endless wars of "democratic liberation" were right about Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Serbia, Yemen, Somalia and Libya and they are right about Syria. The Soviets justified empire building on the basis of "historical inevitability" and "social justice" while America and it's various surrogates do so on the basis of the "inevitable triumph of democracy". It's cartoonish rhetoric which is self serving and is the greatest cause of death and destruction in the world today.
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  #30  
Old February 17th, 2012, 11:07 PM
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Default Re: Syrian Revolution Updates

A state that must turn its guns on its own people has already lost the war. They just don't know it yet. Wait and see!
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  #31  
Old February 17th, 2012, 11:23 PM
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And we know they turned on their own people because the Western media says so and that settles it! Certainly no government should respond to foreign armed/trained/led militias that attack unless it's a nice democratic country like Bahrain or Yemen and then all is fair.

Man, I really love this cartoon take on geo-politcs. It's a lot easier then thinking or reading stuff.
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  #32  
Old February 18th, 2012, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlisterSuggsden View Post
Man, I really love this cartoon take on geo-politcs. It's a lot easier then thinking or reading stuff.
That's hard to do for the average Joe though with the media blackout going on. I have two extremes to read stories from when the case is almost always somewhere in the middle.

Syria is one of the places on earth I want to visit most and I wish the best for it and it's people. I don't have a very firm opinion but it seems to me that what is happening is similar to the ugliness that happened under Assad's father.
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  #33  
Old February 26th, 2012, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by BobMarley View Post
That's hard to do for the average Joe though with the media blackout going on. I have two extremes to read stories from when the case is almost always somewhere in the middle.

Syria is one of the places on earth I want to visit most and I wish the best for it and it's people. I don't have a very firm opinion but it seems to me that what is happening is similar to the ugliness that happened under Assad's father.
To me it seems you are a decent fellow and would say it is safe that you mean well. However, this "truth is in the middle" bit sounds nice but it is correct to say it is separate from reality. Questions that are raised is not things like "is the government of Syria wonderful" or "can a better government be imagined in Syria" or "are some peoples opposed to Syrian government decent and like such stupidity.

Instead we come to the matter of (most timely) has the Syrian government been shelling Homs. So far what we read is "reports" by governments that wish invade Syria and fund terrorist groups trying to do that and "activists" which rare to have names and never provide evidence. So far as I can see the best evidence given is satellite images issued by the State Department (which is actively trying to overthrow the Syrian government) which have the wrong copyright dates.

Anyone that care about truth need consider: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2012/02...-pictures.html

Now that proof is given that the satellite images issued by the State Department are very badly made propaganda. Those that can't admit as much are wanting to be lied to or worse.

All this comes back to justifying yet another war to destroy another country save it with one big difference. Iran has agreements with Syria for mutual defense with Iran so a war in Syria will mean war with Iran. Iran has been pledged to support from Pakistan, China and Russia in case of war. So, who is up for a third world war for lies and bullshit? To me it seems a safe thing to say that many are or couldn't care less. I say "the truth is in the middle" isn't good enough.
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  #34  
Old February 28th, 2012, 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Syrian Revolution Updates

Photojournalism (or propoganda to supporters of the brutal regime)
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2...rising/100252/
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  #35  
Old February 28th, 2012, 02:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by photolinger View Post
Photojournalism (or propoganda to supporters of the brutal regime)
http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2...rising/100252/
The photos show that combat is taking place in Homs which no one has ever doubted. The photos show that innocents get maimed and killed in urban combat which would surprise (hopefully) no one. What the photos don't show is who the FSA is, who trains, them, who arms them and who controls them and what countries (i.e. Turkey and Jordan) they operate from. They also fail to demonstrate that the conduct of any one side is somehow more brutal then another but given the terrorist bombings that the FSA committed recently there isn't much doubt about what the FSA is among honest people. What the text accompanying the photos fail to mention is:

1) that the governments of Syria and Iran have a mutual defense treaty, that direct armed intervention by NATO and it's client states would get NATO and it's clients into a shooting war with Iran which is the whole point of this latest round of colonial proxy warfare.
2) Russia, China and Pakistan have all stated that they will intervene if Iran or Syria is attacked which means that if photo and the people at The Atlantic get what they want world war three is off and running.
3) Given that Syria is being invaded by military forces trained, led and controlled by foreign powers the only sensible response is military. No government that has ever existed anywhere in the world would react any differently in such a situation.

I somehow doubt that the links that have been posted describing the reality of what is happening in Syria have been read by many here but they remain up for those that actually want to be informed. In the meantime I'll simply restate the obvious truths demonstrated thus far.

All of that being said the realities on the ground demonstrated thus far are:

1) A majority of Syrians support the Ba'athist regime. Some undoubtedly support the Ba'athists and/the various parties allied with them out of nationalism but I would imagine a larger portion support them simply as the lesser of two evils. This was confirmed by a survey undertaken and funded by a government committed to overthrowing the Syrian government (which is to say the Qatari government).

2) Even the openly hostile Arab League report found that the response of the Syrian state to attacks by foreign elements has been radically exaggerated and the endless tide of anti Ba'athist propaganda has been wildly inaccurate.

3) The FSA has been shown to led by Libyan Salafists, trained, equipped and directed by NATO in a proxy war on the Syrian state.

4) NATO/Israel and it's various proxies have openly declared a desire to topple the Ba'athists and are waging a proxy war against the Syrian state and if they win Syria will end up like Libya.

5) Syria is essentially a stepping stone for invading Iran and as a result it's a proxy battleground between NATO/Israel/GCC on the one side and Syria/Iran/China/Russia/Pakistan on the other. This is world war three in the making folks but you don't you worry because your media and government have never and won't ever lie you into a war.

6) The State Department photos are bogus. They don't portray what they claim and if you are conscious, moderately honest and capable of semi-critical thought you can't deny that reality.

Given the purposeful evading of the context of the battle in Homs by The Atlantic and agenda it obviously serves it would be accurate to term it propaganda.

Last edited by AlisterSuggsden; February 28th, 2012 at 02:36 AM.
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  #36  
Old February 29th, 2012, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OmobonoTognon View Post
.

Great points but I think you misunderstood what I was getting at when I said the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. It's all good though.

Anyway. I'll let you experts carry on the discussion, I'm just a typical clueless American when it comes to the middle east.
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  #37  
Old March 7th, 2012, 04:48 PM
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The endless tidal wave of atrocity propaganda, hysteria and lies to start yet another war in the Middle East has been met with a mix of yawns, active disinterest and enthusiasm/bloodlust in the West (and here as well it would seem) yet despite this reality I’ll post genuine news I doubt all but a very few have seen.

Oh, remember the claims that the bombing in Aleppo wasn’t done by the FSA? Recall the claims of responsibility by the FSA that were posted earlier? Well here is a bit more on that matter here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8urCkTnVeGA and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8urCkTnVeGA

But first, a quick re-cap for those paying attention:

1) A majority of Syrians support the Ba'athist regime. Some undoubtedly support the Ba'athists and/the various parties allied with them out of nationalism but I would imagine a larger portion support them simply as the lesser of two evils. This was confirmed by a survey undertaken and funded by a government committed to overthrowing the Syrian government (which is to say the Qatari government).

2) Even the openly hostile Arab League report found that the response of the Syrian state to attacks by foreign elements has been radically exaggerated and the endless tide of anti Ba'athist propaganda has been wildly inaccurate.

3) The FSA has been shown to led by Libyan Salafists, trained, equipped and directed by NATO in a proxy war on the Syrian state.

4) NATO/Israel and it's various proxies have openly declared a desire to topple the Ba'athists and are waging a proxy war against the Syrian state and if they win Syria will end up like Libya.

5) Syria is essentially a stepping stone for invading Iran and as a result it's a proxy battleground between NATO/Israel/GCC on the one side and Syria/Iran/China/Russia/Pakistan on the other. This is world war three in the making folks and something no one can afford to ignore or just assume that the media/government is being honest about.

6) The State Department photos claiming to show that the Syrian army indiscriminately bombed Homs show nothing of the kind. They are very poorly done atrocity propaganda and nothing more.

Read the posts that I and Omobono made on the first page and a half or so to see the supporting evidence for those obvious truths.

Now, back to new news -

For starters we see that the U.S. now openly aiding groups seeking to violently overthrow a government that has done nothing at all to threaten American interests and is incapable of doing so:

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...ian_opposition

Clinton Admits US On Same Side As Al Qaeda To Destabilise Assad Government:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=29524
http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po...ian_opposition

From Secretary Clinton’s comments and the actions of the American government we can conclude that Al Qaeda is worthy of U.S. support if they kill Syrians or Libyans but a great evil when they are allegedly operating in Afghanistan. Gee, anyone want to figure out why that is?

Remember the satellite images used to push atrocity propaganda? Well here you can read what the Arab League’s (a group of American controlled puppet states) observers had to say to say about the reality of what is happening in Syria here:

http://www.columbia.edu/%7Ehauben/Re...er_Mission.pdf

and a decent summery of the report for those with sort attention spans or little time is here:

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/...aggerated.html

So much for the cartoon view of the Syrian situation that we see in the media!

But wait, it gets “better”! There is solid proof that the “peace loving activists” are being used by the American government to carry out terrorist bombings and assassinations. An email leaked as part of the Wikileaks Stratfor data dump reveals that the Pentagon had directed terror attacks and assassinations inside Syria in a bid to topple President President Bashar al-Assad.

The email, written by Reva Bhalla, Stratfor’s Director of Analysis, contains details of a December 6 Pentagon meeting attended by members of the USAF strategic studies group along with four military officers at the Lieutenant Colonel level, “including one French and one British representative.”

Bhalla was told by the military officials that, despite official claims to the contrary, foreign troops from NATO powers were already on the ground in Syria.

“After a couple hours of talking, they said without saying that SOF teams (presumably from US, UK, France, Jordan, Turkey) are already on the ground focused on recce missions and training opposition forces,” states the email.

Bhalla goes on to describe how the mission of the undercover commandoes is hypothetically to “commit guerrilla attacks, assassination campaigns, try to break the back of the Alawite forces [one of several ethnic/religious groups that back Ba’athist led coalition government], elicit collapse from within.”

In other words, the Pentagon, along with other NATO powers, have already directed Special Forces troops stationed inside Syria to carry out terrorist attacks and assassinations in an effort to topple President President Bashar al-Assad.

You can read the email here: http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/16...ithdrawal.html

So the reality is that American troops are on Syrian territory waging war without Congressional approval. So much for the Constitution and the rule of law.

More here on NATO arming “peaceful activists” : http://rt.com/news/syria-arms-us-france-531/

Here are videos showing lots of captured Israeli ordinance in Homs which demonstrates once again that Syria is fighting a proxy invasion:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...znlLHb-44#t=0s

http://theuglytruth.wordpress.com/20...raeli-weapons/

Here you can read an Israeli admission that they are seeking to overthrow the Syrian government:

http://democratic-syria.blogspot.com...sition-in.html

Since we all hear reports on how many people die each day in Syria I got to wondering just who is reporting those figures, who exactly got killed and by whom and how any of it can be verified. If any of you share my curiosity check out:

http://rt.com/news/syria-death-count-political-875/

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02...casualty-list/

Can we trust American media interviews with Syrian “activists”? This isn’t really something that requires much thought given the lies about Iraq, Iran, Kosovo, Yemen, Tunisia, Afghanistan, etc ad nauseam but clearly some people can’t quite bring themselves to actually critique what they see and read it’s from a “mainstream media source” or if a Noble Peace prize winner like Obama states something to be true. For those people I think we need to look at Imperialism’s favorite Syrian celebrity “Danny Abdul-Dayem”. Danny provides classic war propaganda - complete with staged-gunfire off camera and the intrepid actor "Danny" relaxed and joking before getting into character to give a hysterical "casualty report" to his co-star, CNN's Anderson Cooper -- just one of many he regularly gives to Western media networks.

The omnipresent "Danny" from Syria has been recently exposed in a video showing him relaxed, joking, and preparing off-camera staged-gunfire, before getting into character for a hysterical "casualty report" given to CNN's Anderson Cooper.

See “Danny” in character here: http://www.activistpost.com/2012/03/...ropaganda.html

A bit of background about the actor/”activist” Danny here:
http://lizzie-phelan.blogspot.com/20...favourite.html

Lots of great video footage and analysis here:

http://lizzie-phelan.blogspot.com/20...nsurgents.html

The good news is that Syrian Army has driven out the Salafist mercenaries and the various NATO/GCC operatives that control them so the amount of bloodshed should decline a bit. If anyone wants I can post links that mention that development.

I could go one but I’d rather see if I’ve been able to illicit any thought so I’ll stop for now.
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  #38  
Old April 28th, 2012, 07:16 PM
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I must admit I did find the "Danny" segment quite interesting. Surprized it wasn't picked up by other new media competitors, but not surprized that it came out of CNN......

If we are honest....main stream media has gone down the tubes in recent years regarding quality and objectivity....no question about it! They don't 'report' the news, but seek to 'make' the news.....based on their own agenda.....
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  #39  
Old July 3rd, 2012, 01:11 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/03/world/...orture-report/
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  #40  
Old July 3rd, 2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IMCarnochan View Post
That article is very illustrative of why the American media shouldn't be given any more credibility on what happens in the Middle East then what the Westboro Babtist Church or Televangelist John Hagee has to say on Islam. After checking out the faked Iraqi war footage
( see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT_gY6lz92M ) and the "Danny from Syria" scam I already detailed it's amazing that anyone would take anything CNN says about the region at face value.

Still, it seems that the notion that "mainstream" is to be trusted on Syria is one that few want to consider so I'll quickly go over the article mentioned.

I noticed that that the article starts off with sensationalist language designed to emotionally engage the reader which is a very typical propaganda technique. What follows are comments by unidentified "opposition" figures which follow a long established pattern whereby the American media pretends that the people seeking violent revolution in Syria are somehow unbiased sources of information from that country that are never critically evaluated or questioned in any way which is again a perfect indication that we are dealing with a propaganda item rather then news.

As to the report that CNN references I notice that the group that puts it out is primarily funded by a fellow named George Soros who has a long history of funding NGOs to promote political agendas that serve globalism and regime that benefits the U.S./N.A.T.O. . Obviously that that doesn't mean that HRW is bogus but it certainly does mean that a bit of caution is called for when looking the material they issue.

The apparent victims are interviewed by RHW are self reported victims and the interviews are not available for outside examination which does open the door to the question of how the interviewees became vetted. Unfortunately, HRW doesn't give any details at all about that aspect of the methodology which means that the reader just has to take it on faith that the anonymous interviewees honestly reported what they said happened to them and that HRW has accurately relayed those reports. Given the seriousness of the charges and the political value to the U.S./Israel of such a report making such an assumption simply isn't a reasonable course to take.

I notice that CNN didn't mention any of that which at best reflects careless and unprofessional conduct but given it's past history and current behavior I'd say it's more likely it demonstrates an agenda based upon deception. The comment towards the end of the article claiming that torture is what brought about the rebellion is a rather blatant example of CNN pushing an agenda as it fails to take into consideration the fact that the rebellion is armed and controlled by foreign governments and heavily manned by religious extremists that in large measure aren't Syrians. When I put all of those elements together I see a transparent propaganda piece presented as news to an uncritical and gullible American public.

In short, the HRW report may be true but it's not possible for an outsider to determine if that is the case. What is easily determined is that CNN is openly promoting an agenda that just happens to coincide with that of the U.S./Israel and they lie frequently while doing so.

Oh, a good article about the HRW report can be found here: http://www.activistpost.com/2012/07/...n-torture.html

Last edited by AlisterSuggsden; July 3rd, 2012 at 07:06 PM.
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  #41  
Old July 3rd, 2012, 06:00 PM
AlisterSuggsden
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I must admit I did find the "Danny" segment quite interesting. Surprized it wasn't picked up by other new media competitors, but not surprized that it came out of CNN......

If we are honest....main stream media has gone down the tubes in recent years regarding quality and objectivity....no question about it! They don't 'report' the news, but seek to 'make' the news.....based on their own agenda.....
You've always struck me as a thoughtful person and you've raised some good points. One thing I've come to notice is the constancy of the way themedia in the West frames issues, what issues they push and the total lack of even a pretense at objectivity. What that means is that CNNs competitors didn't publicize the "Danny" story because they all value pushing an ideological agenda more then they do "scooping" a rival.
Check out CNNs sorry attempt at redeeming "Danny" here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JR6cY...layer_embedded

Lest it be thought that I am prone to pick on the American media check out this video from Australia as it's one of the best broadcasts on Syria I've seen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=kaNei6tuiUU


Sometimes atrocity propaganda is nothing more then taking an image and saying it shows something it doesn't. This is what the BBC did when it came to the Houla massacre when they simply relabeled a dramatic, years old photo from Iraq and said it was recently taken in Houla:

http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/201...aganda-138921/

The real question that we should asking ourselves is this: "if the Syrian government is really the cartoon villain made out by the Western media why do they need to make that point with obvious fabrications?"
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Old July 8th, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Looking upon this thread after a long time I see almost no exchange of ideas and near to zero interest. To me this is hard to grasp as a lot of people are dying and a great many more hurt or having lives destroyed. It seem to be the case that none of the information posted was read/watched except perhaps by Micheal Steele and the Marley fellow. All this makes me ask why?

Do people here simply not care what happens in this world?
Are people here scared to hear of a view other then what is said in the West media? It could be that people are scared of anything controversial so much that they will not know of what happens as that would make them uncomfortable?

When I look and see how Iran/China/Russia are not willing to let NATO/GCC?Israel destroy Syria as Libya was a very good chance of a world war is shaping up and no one seems to care. This sort of apathy is beyond me.
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  #43  
Old July 8th, 2012, 02:18 PM
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Please do not be so quick to throw the apathetic label on the many fine folks here at hp. Now with my post I mean no offense and have taken none from any of the post here but there are many reasons why this thread hasn't been overwhelmed by responses from the community. It could be that some people simply have not formed a complete opinion that they would like to showcase or it could be that they have an opinion that they feel they can't articulate properly. We also have the group of people who have read the articles as well as formed and articulated opinion but realize the exercise in futility that is talking about western involvement in the problems of the world.
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Old July 8th, 2012, 02:20 PM
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In my last post there was a portion I wanted to state and accidentally left out and that is to say thank you to everyone who has actively participated in this thread. You have done us a service by making these articles and videos more accessible the people here.
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  #45  
Old July 25th, 2012, 11:10 PM
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Unfortunately, this thread has gone from hoping Syrians fare well through this period to conspiracies about NATO, zionists, and every other group that can be lumped. That stuff is entirely irrelevant though. A country is using its army on its own people. As soon as the army replaced the police as the government's tool to deal with its people, a wrong was committed. Regardless of your individual feelings about Assad, I think nearly everyone can agree that a leader using military force on his own people makes him much less legitimate and even less deserving of his people's trust.
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  #46  
Old July 26th, 2012, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by chefwong View Post
Unfortunately, this thread has gone from hoping Syrians fare well through this period to conspiracies about NATO, zionists, and every other group that can be lumped. That stuff is entirely irrelevant though. A country is using its army on its own people. As soon as the army replaced the police as the government's tool to deal with its people, a wrong was committed. Regardless of your individual feelings about Assad, I think nearly everyone can agree that a leader using military force on his own people makes him much less legitimate and even less deserving of his people's trust.
Unfortunately your post demonstrates that you simply haven't read the read the links that posted that demonstrate what is actually happening in Syria nor watched any of the videos which prove that the Western/GCC media is actively lying about the proxy invasion of Syria. I raised the matter of Zionism/NATO/GCC because violence happening there represents the active pursuit of a policy to destroy that country. Fortunately, there exists plenty of material that has been posted to alert an honest and rational reader which allows one to understand what is happening there and why.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by AlisterSuggsden View Post
Unfortunately your post demonstrates that you simply haven't read the read the links that posted that demonstrate what is actually happening in Syria nor watched any of the videos which prove that the Western/GCC media is actively lying about the proxy invasion of Syria. I raised the matter of Zionism/NATO/GCC because violence happening there represents the active pursuit of a policy to destroy that country. Fortunately, there exists plenty of material that has been posted to alert an honest and rational reader which allows one to understand what is happening there and why.
I'm not sure what a proxy invasion entails. If you're invading your own home, it's not really an invasion. Also if you think that "Zionists," NATO, and the US all agree on how to deal with anything, you don't know each very well. NATO doesn't even have a unified goal beyond security. The US has no vested interest in Syria at all considering there is no real trade or threat. Israel is the only country with an interest which is purely security. If you were surrounded by countries that want you to not exist, it's understandable to want one that's at least not against you. Israel isn't training and would never train people who could even possibly turn against them though. You might think they're wrong, but they understand security.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 12:41 PM
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Alistair

While I agree that the US media sucks and is heavily biased against Islamic countries, aren't you making the tacit assumption that Islamic media is truly unbiased and always supplies you with the precise truth?

Just a thought. I have no dog in this fight, but truth is as rare as titanium.
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Old July 26th, 2012, 03:30 PM
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I'm not sure what a proxy invasion entails. If you're invading your own home, it's not really an invasion. Also if you think that "Zionists," NATO, and the US all agree on how to deal with anything, you don't know each very well. NATO doesn't even have a unified goal beyond security. The US has no vested interest in Syria at all considering there is no real trade or threat. Israel is the only country with an interest which is purely security. If you were surrounded by countries that want you to not exist, it's understandable to want one that's at least not against you. Israel isn't training and would never train people who could even possibly turn against them though. You might think they're wrong, but they understand security.
If you had actually read what had been stated in this topic, consulted a few of the written reports and watched a few of the videos posted you’d know what a proxy invasion entails. You haven’t done so because you are content to assume that the openly biased and wildly dishonest reporting of media based in countries that are in a state of war with the Syrian government are beyond reproach. Obviously it’s not easy to have a dialog with you when you simply repeat accusations without any intent of examining the massive amounts of damming evidence that contradicts your shallowly supported views. I’ve already shown the FSA is armed, trained and supplied by NATO/the GCC/Israel and given that reality the only honest way to term the war in Syria is as a proxy invasion. On the off chance that you get around to actually paying attention to what has demonstrated you’d note that Abdul Hakim Belha (commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group) is a major backer of the FSA and that LIFG has had plenty of troops in Syria for months. As you missed that I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and let you read another report about that here : http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...ion-group.html.

You can read about how the American government is funding Salafist lunatics via the KSA and various GCC members here: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/wo...pagewanted=all , http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...TSU_story.html and http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...TSU_story.html Even CNN is admitting a substantive foreign component to the war (which is a bit like admitting that some chemicals may be found in Starbuzz ) when they briefly cover Libyan Salafists fighting in Syria being based in Turkey here: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/07/24/wo...nce/index.html
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/25...aleppo-battle/ )

Given that It’s been effortless to prove the obvious fact that the FSA is owned and operated by and for the benefit of the GCC/NATO/Israel and as a result the war in Syria is a product of imperialist ambition I probably shouldn’t bother to provide even more material to be ignored but on the off chance that someone here actually cares about the truth of the matter they can read about how every figure worth mentioning in the “Syrian Opposition” is nothing more then NATO/Israeli asset can get even more info here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...ng-the-talking

When you said “Also if you think that "Zionists," NATO, and the US all agree on how to deal with anything, you don't know each very well. “ You at best demonstrated a profound ignorance of political reality that defies comprehension. I could detail how every political faction worth mentioning in the U.S. and every major NATO country openly brags about it’s fealty to Israel or discuss the extent of financial, military and intelligence support Israel receives but I think I’ll wait until you demonstrate a willingness to actually absorb some of what has been said first.

Your comment “ NATO doesn't even have a unified goal beyond security” is unsupported and totally contrary to actions taken by major NATO countries in Syria and public policy pronouncements. Once again you need to realize that simply pronouncing something in no way makes it so. Your disconnect from reality continues unabated when you proclaim “Israel is the only country with an interest which is purely security. If you were surrounded by countries that want you to not exist, it's understandable to want one that's at least not against you.” What you’ve done is completely ignore the proof provided that Israel is arming Syrian terrorists as well as occupying Syrian territory for decades. Of course you also are ignoring the vast Israeli influence over foreign policy of the U.S./U.K./Canada/France and a great many other nations along with a very long history of Israeli aggression which says a great deal about why your posts are so fact free.

I suppose that it’s worth mentioning that the “Syrian opposition” isn’t just funded, trained and equipped by NATO/Israel/GCC as well as in large measure manned by foreign Salafists but tha the constitution for a would by colonist controlled Syria is being written by US State Department, via the "US Institute of Peace". Those interested can read about it here: http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/20...stitution.html and
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/07/...stitution.html

Given that America hates the idea of a sovereign Syria and has been seeking add yet another client state in the region to it’s sizable roster of puppets the current proxy war is part of a long term policy objective which has been detailed here: http://www.blogger.com/www.brookings...yria_saban.pdf and http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/20...s-fortune.html

Oh, I suppose that some here might have a problem with a group called al-Qaeda and may be interested to find out what they are up to Syria. If so read:
http://en.ammonnews.net/article.aspx?articleNO=17300
http://www.trans-int.com/wordpress/i...st-six-months/

Some info Salafist driven genocide paid for with your tax dollars can be gained here:
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/07/...thnically.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=32004
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle4432160/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/21/wo...pagewanted=all
http://news.antiwar.com/2012/06/21/c...hrough-turkey/
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/25/wo...c=me&ref=world
http://news.antiwar.com/2012/06/21/c...hrough-turkey/
http://www.activistpost.com/2012/07/...ppo-syria.html
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-846180.html
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  #50  
Old July 26th, 2012, 03:50 PM
AlisterSuggsden
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Originally Posted by Zanaspus View Post
Alistair

While I agree that the US media sucks and is heavily biased against Islamic countries, aren't you making the tacit assumption that Islamic media is truly unbiased and always supplies you with the precise truth?

Just a thought. I have no dog in this fight, but truth is as rare as titanium.
My concern with the American media isn't so much as it's extremely biased but rather I am concerned with it's dishonesty. The actual fabrication lies designed support a policy of destroying other nations bothers me because i'm a sentient being that has lived through such a planned catastrophe. As a result, I assume that media from America (and other Western nations) are lying until proven otherwise which is clearly the case in Syria.

As to "Islamic" media it's open about it's bias but given the ownership of Al Jazeera and it's poor record when it comes to honesty I don't give "Islamic" media much more credit then I do CNN, Fox or the BBC. Obviously depending upon media outlets openly allied to the Ba'ath Party or the IRI can be vary problematic so I rarely consult such sources.

The truth isn't rare and it's hard to find if you are willing to put in some time and have the ability to exercise critical reasoning when you read. Having such ability and an inclination to use it you'll see I can build an extremely solid case consulting German, Russian, Asian and Australian media outlets. I've also gotten a lot of good stuff from simply critically reviewing mainstream American and British sites and public pronouncements by Western governments often tell what they are up to even if they are lying about the motivations for what they do.

As for having "a dog in this fight" I'd say you do for the simple reason that your government is using your tax dollars to create vast levels of unnecessary human suffering and death in ways that simply can't benefit the American public.
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