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Gun Control

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  #1  
Old December 14th, 2012, 07:06 PM
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Default Gun Control

In light of recent event, should a more strict policy concerning Gun Control be established? A shooting at a elementary school is going to prompt legislators to address this issue. I just wanted to hear everyone thoughts.
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  #2  
Old December 14th, 2012, 07:28 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Do I think more should be done? Yes. Do I think that more will be done? No.
I am very much a supporter of our 2nd Amendment, but I also believe that allows for certain limits. Sure, almost anyone (except violent criminals, and the mentally ill) should be allowed hunting rifles. People should be allowed guns to protect themselves, and their homes and families. But when it comes to assault rifles and such, I believe they should be limited to, as the 2nd Amendment so eloquently states, members of a "Well regulated militia", including, but not restricted to the military, national guards, and police forces.

Simple fact is, I believe there is a correlation between the excessive gun violence in this country, and our gun laws, and something more needs to be done.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 08:30 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Meatless View Post
Do I think more should be done? Yes. Do I think that more will be done? No.
I am very much a supporter of our 2nd Amendment, but I also believe that allows for certain limits. Sure, almost anyone (except violent criminals, and the mentally ill) should be allowed hunting rifles. People should be allowed guns to protect themselves, and their homes and families. But when it comes to assault rifles and such, I believe they should be limited to, as the 2nd Amendment so eloquently states, members of a "Well regulated militia", including, but not restricted to the military, national guards, and police forces.

Simple fact is, I believe there is a correlation between the excessive gun violence in this country, and our gun laws, and something more needs to be done.
I pretty much have the same views. We need to analyze what we have on the market and see if they have a legitimate purpose for being there. Assault Rifles definitely do not have a purpose.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 09:56 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Did a speech on this...and Im completely for unrestricted guns in general, he would have been stopped MUCH earlier.
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  #5  
Old December 14th, 2012, 10:09 PM
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I would like to do more research on how gun restriction works in other countries, I would be curious to see statistics and their crime related deaths. I don't think restricting our firearms is the solution, making ourselves more vulnerable and defenseless is the route to take.
Also good job starting a new thread instead of throwing it in a different thread that would certainty lead it in a different direction.
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  #6  
Old December 14th, 2012, 10:51 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Today bearing a firearm is overwhelmingly easy. Whether it would be legal or illegal. People in this crazy world can grab their hands on anything. It's not the fact that people can buy guns so easily i just believe that people are inhumane, how can you control that?
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  #7  
Old December 15th, 2012, 01:49 AM
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Default Re: Gun Control

I'm against banning them, but at the same time, I'm against a society with no limits on them. I'm for substantial control.

Maybe chris rock had the right idea...
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Old December 15th, 2012, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Gun Control

The issue i feel can not be solved with more or less guns, i am in favor of assault rifle bans and the registering of firearms as well as bans on armor piercing rounds and other things that only serve the purpose of killing people, but the fact of the matter is that criminals will always get their hands on these things and the last thing we need to do is add to the sale of black market weapons because then it will only be law enforcement, military, and criminals in possession of firearms and i am not in favor of any of this.

instead of looking at the issue in a manner of more or less we should be discussing the issue of what societal issues cause us to have such a high murder by firearms rate, either side can find statistics to support their argument and that is missing the real issue, there are no simple solutions to complex issues and we need to focus more on the mental health of the individuals who commit these large scale murders and what about our society causes these issues to be so prevalent in our country above so many other countries. that is the way i feel about it
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  #9  
Old December 15th, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Sk3tchyboy View Post
instead of looking at the issue in a manner of more or less we should be discussing the issue of what societal issues cause us to have such a high murder by firearms rate, either side can find statistics to support their argument and that is missing the real issue, there are no simple solutions to complex issues and we need to focus more on the mental health of the individuals who commit these large scale murders and what about our society causes these issues to be so prevalent in our country above so many other countries. that is the way i feel about it
+1, in VA there're very few ways to not be allowed to own guns...and you don't need to register it. Also at gun shows you can buy without any background check. I'm all for owning an arsenal, but some people, maybe even me, shouldn't own guns.
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  #10  
Old December 15th, 2012, 12:18 PM
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I don't think gun control will solve the issue, it might make it more difficult but as you have heard "if there's will there's a way". I believe it is a cultural issue. No I'm not saying that its video games and movies causing problems, I just feel that a lot of people, in my area at least, feel that violence is what makes you a man. Until there is a culture change, I feel that these things will continue to happen.
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  #11  
Old December 15th, 2012, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin53 View Post
I don't think gun control will solve the issue, it might make it more difficult but as you have heard "if there's will there's a way". I believe it is a cultural issue. No I'm not saying that its video games and movies causing problems, I just feel that a lot of people, in my area at least, feel that violence is what makes you a man. Until there is a culture change, I feel that these things will continue to happen.
I think we need to look at this from two sides. Guns and this "violence culture" both sides need to be addressed. We can't just focus on one or they will continue to happen.
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  #12  
Old December 15th, 2012, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Not to sound to much like a looney. Few days before the school shooting a mall I frequent that many of my friends work at was shot up by a gunman. They were all okay, but sadly some were not. I cannot help but wonder about the timing of these events.

Starting to wonder if action should be taken or not myself. Its clear to me the demons who do such things are not right in the head. Now nearing the "end of the world Dec 2012" I do honestly believe precautions should be taken. I'm not saying I think the world is going to be invaded or blown up by an asteroid. Sadly no matter how shocking these tragic events are, I feel like the timing may be seen as excuses for the unstable minds.

As far as the gun control though. That is a tough one. Personally I do own a few rifles. I take good care of them safely. But as long as all someone needs is a clean record and the $$$ to get one, these events may very well continue. But since it is the right of the masses to have, should that be limited due to the few? Also would it actually stop people from doing these things? Whose to say different methods wouldn't be used instead?
It has to be taken into account what the 2nd amendment actually is there for. Not simply so we can have shinny extensions of our manhood, but more of a symbol to our independence. When ignorance is lost, knowledge is gain. Perhaps more gun education should be focused on. More requirements for obtaining a firearm. I would be okay with more reasons to lose the privileged to have a firearm honestly. For example: someone with a few to many anger problems clearly is not in control of themselves enough to have such a responsibility.
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  #13  
Old December 15th, 2012, 05:44 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

They need to enforce the laws we have instead of making more. If a person tries to by a gun and the background check shows they cannot buy one due to past crime, they should be arrested. Now they are just denied a gun.
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  #14  
Old December 15th, 2012, 07:24 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

My point of view:

First I want to say how terrible I feel about this recent event that has claimed the lives of our children and my condolences to their families. They have to be devastated. No one should have to endure this type of tragedy.

I feel that the problem is not the guns. Sure they kill people, that is what they were designed to do. I feel the problem is with society itself. To fully expound upon my ideas concerning this would take a book and this isnt the proper venue to elaborate at such a depth.

I will simply say that there is something wrong with a society, government, or an individual that places such high stress on itself, that it is forced "over the edge," to such an extent, as to what has occurred many times now. I think there is a clear pattern of deranged thoughts and behaviors established that we need to look within ourselves and determine what we value, how we value, what we need, and want in life. We need to examine what our priorities are and the lengths that we are willing to go to obtain them. Having done this we need to determine what we are willing to do to make them happen.

The reason I say this is that we, on both a societal and personal levels, are allowing ourselves to one extent or the other to become psychologically injured to the point that it is now possible to the human mind to conceive of such atrocities as to what has happened. Allowing ourselves to sustain such abuse and "stuffing it down" into our minds and allowing it to grow until it actually alters the basic perceptions of "what is actual" on both a physical and psychological dimension. This is to me so tragic. Not only do we allow it to grow in our minds, but other people will add to the injury on a daily basis. This is just everyday negative encounters that is a part of everyone's life. Also don't forget our own propensity for negative internal self dialogue compounding the problem, which has probably been instilled into the psyche from an early age.

I feel this is a good enough reason to justify everyone being on a quest for mature "self-actualization." Life must happen from the inside out, one must be self actualized. Not the reverse, or being emotionally reflexive in nature and not having thought through a situation calmly. When we think reflexively, we lose the ability to see clearly after years of sustained injury. We can lose sight of who we are, and what we are a part of. When that happens life can get very creative based upon the level of I.Q a person has. The bad thing is that a very smart individual can be much more destructive than someone that is less gifted. Unfortunate but true.

Now take that kind of a person, add what you want to him/her. For example give them a gun, or a knife, or a bomb, or whatever; now you have a recipe for something spectacular in a very negative manner.

Am I for gun control? Our founding fathers were not. I don't think I am either. The problems of today's society is much more complex than simple "GUN CONTROL."
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Last edited by Melvin; December 15th, 2012 at 10:59 PM.
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  #15  
Old December 15th, 2012, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin View Post
Am I for gun control? Our founding fathers were not.
I just don't understand how you can draw this conclusion. I mean the first four words of the 2nd Amendment are, "A well regulated militia". What exactly did the founding father mean by "well regulated", and why was it so important for them to preface the 2nd Amendment with these words if they didn't mean anything by them? Please explain.
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  #16  
Old December 16th, 2012, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin View Post
My point of view:

First I want to say how terrible I feel about this recent event that has claimed the lives of our children and my condolences to their families. They have to be devastated. No one should have to endure this type of tragedy.

I feel that the problem is not the guns. Sure they kill people, that is what they were designed to do. I feel the problem is with society itself. To fully expound upon my ideas concerning this would take a book and this isnt the proper venue to elaborate at such a depth.

I will simply say that there is something wrong with a society, government, or an individual that places such high stress on itself, that it is forced "over the edge," to such an extent, as to what has occurred many times now. I think there is a clear pattern of deranged thoughts and behaviors established that we need to look within ourselves and determine what we value, how we value, what we need, and want in life. We need to examine what our priorities are and the lengths that we are willing to go to obtain them. Having done this we need to determine what we are willing to do to make them happen.

The reason I say this is that we, on both a societal and personal levels, are allowing ourselves to one extent or the other to become psychologically injured to the point that it is now possible to the human mind to conceive of such atrocities as to what has happened. Allowing ourselves to sustain such abuse and "stuffing it down" into our minds and allowing it to grow until it actually alters the basic perceptions of "what is actual" on both a physical and psychological dimension. This is to me so tragic. Not only do we allow it to grow in our minds, but other people will add to the injury on a daily basis. This is just everyday negative encounters that is a part of everyone's life. Also don't forget our own propensity for negative internal self dialogue compounding the problem, which has probably been instilled into the psyche from an early age.

I feel this is a good enough reason to justify everyone being on a quest for mature "self-actualization." Life must happen from the inside out, one must be self actualized. Not the reverse, or being emotionally reflexive in nature and not having thought through a situation calmly. When we think reflexively, we lose the ability to see clearly after years of sustained injury. We can lose sight of who we are, and what we are a part of. When that happens life can get very creative based upon the level of I.Q a person has. The bad thing is that a very smart individual can be much more destructive than someone that is less gifted. Unfortunate but true.

Now take that kind of a person, add what you want to him/her. For example give them a gun, or a knife, or a bomb, or whatever; now you have a recipe for something spectacular in a very negative manner.

Am I for gun control? Our founding fathers were not. I don't think I am either. The problems of today's society is much more complex than simple "GUN CONTROL."
This is what I was thinking, Melvin. You look at all the massacre shootings that take place and attacker is always tagged with some sort of "mental disorder". If someone evil as this person is who could take the lives of 6 year olds, he would of found some other way to inflict the damage he did if guns were not available.
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  #17  
Old December 16th, 2012, 12:26 AM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meatless View Post
I just don't understand how you can draw this conclusion. I mean the first four words of the 2nd Amendment are, "A well regulated militia". What exactly did the founding father mean by "well regulated", and why was it so important for them to preface the 2nd Amendment with these words if they didn't mean anything by them? Please explain.
It seems that "well regulated", means gun control exclusively for you. For me "the right to bear arms " is taken literally. I'm no politician or expert in law. I felt that I relayed that severely psylogically injured person + maladaption to an increasingly aggressive society + lack of adequate coping skills+ a weapon = tragedy. Any weapon is simply one variable in a complex issue such as this.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 12:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RxMatt View Post
This is what I was thinking, Melvin. You look at all the massacre shootings that take place and attacker is always tagged with some sort of "mental disorder". If someone evil as this person is who could take the lives of 6 year olds, he would of found some other way to inflict the damage he did if guns were not available.
Matt
You touched on something that I was hesitant to say. However for the record, apart from Clinical diagnosis found in the DSM. I do believe that true evil exists in the world. This was pure evil.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 11:36 AM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Just for the record Guns do not Kill people Guns are not Evil.

The fact is that people with guns that kill people. Here in the new free and liberated South Africa Gun laws has changed substantially so the People who used to own guns have sold their firearms for they are to scared to use them even for self defense. Example You own a pistol an intruder breaks into your house armed with a knife You as a male is not allowed to shoot him even in self defense for you may only defend yourself with what you are threatened with. Your wife on the other hand may shoot him if it is her gun not with your gun.

Next Scenario: A criminal needs a firearm to commit a crime he pays a "Merchant" R50.00 for a revolver or pistol to "loan" and then he pays R250 per bullet for the gun. after committing the crime he returns the firearm to the "Merchant" so it can be stored and be used again.

This is what Gun Control has brought about.

When the law was proclaimed there was an amnesty period for every one to turn in their firearms to the police for proper disposal seeing as the licensing laws required reapplication for all your existing firearm licenses with no guarantee that your application would be approved. A lot of the surrendered firearms disappeared while in police custody and was not destroyed as the police proclaimed even confiscated firearms from botched robberies ect disappeared only to reappear in new crimes being committed.

About a month ago a 15 year old schoolboy stole his mothers Police service pistol and took it to school to kill a so called bully in the end it was just for revenge on a kid he felt had affronted him.

Hardened Criminals go to jail with a smile on their face for they know by bribing a warden he can get a weekend pass to commit more crime and use the fact that he was in jail as an alibi.

The only thing Gun Control has done to this country is given the criminals the freedom that they wanted to murder and pillage as they choose for they know the law will protect them and you as the citizen will now become the criminal.

Ps just watch out when the start abolishing the death penalty in your respective states then all hell will break loose and murder rates will skyrocket even more.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
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Matt
You touched on something that I was hesitant to say. However for the record, apart from Clinical diagnosis found in the DSM. I do believe that true evil exists in the world. This was pure evil.
Even more evil then me.

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  #21  
Old December 16th, 2012, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

First I would like to extend my sympathy to the bereaved.
I'm against violence but I agree with the right to bear arms...IRA etc etc... I don't know the answer to it really ther than to say you can't legislate if some evil b******* wants to kill poor kids.... god bless them
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  #22  
Old December 16th, 2012, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hilliard View Post
I pretty much have the same views. We need to analyze what we have on the market and see if they have a legitimate purpose for being there. Assault Rifles definitely do not have a purpose.

They serve a very good purpose on my hog hunts. People can kill other people with more than assault rifles. If someone is a good enough shot they can take out more targets with a regular bolt action rifle. His mother knowing that he has a personality problem, should have kept her guns out of his hands. she failed to do so. Also, the assault rifle was in the back seat of the car. The guns that killed everyone from what I gathered was 2 handguns.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 06:31 PM
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Also at gun shows you can buy without any background check.
I don't know what gun shows you are attending, but I've had background checks for every gun purchase I've made at gun shows.

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  #24  
Old December 16th, 2012, 06:56 PM
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I don't know what gun shows you are attending, but I've had background checks for every gun purchase I've made at gun shows.

Kevin T
Exactly. I've been to several and either myself or who I'm with have gotten a background check every single time we've purchased a weapon. This has happened both in Texas and New Mexico. But this might vary from state to state and dealer to dealer.
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Old December 18th, 2012, 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

The only thing taking guns out of the hands of citizens does is take guns out of the hands of the innocent. How many murders do you think are commited with weapons that were legally obtained? Even in a country where gun laws are relatively lax, and obtaining a gun is easy, a prudent criminal does not obtain his gun through a legal route, so making it harder to obtain a gun legally is counter productive.

I am all for derestricting guns. If, for example, teachers were allowed (and god forbid even encouraged) to concealed carry in school, that maniac would have been stopped right away.

We need more gun education and less gun regulation.
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