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Serious Discussion In an attempt to add some serious discussion (because a lot of hookah smokers like to discuss stuff like this) ...

Gun Control

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Old December 20th, 2012, 10:52 PM
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Hey I don't take it personal, you don't agree with me. You weren't being disrespectful or name calling as so many times "discussions" can easily turn into.
I will respond later I'm on my iPhone and don't feel like typing anything lengthy on it, I was curious where this thread had gone.
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Old December 20th, 2012, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Originally Posted by danath 34 View Post
FYI, on the same day as the Newtown school shooting, a man slashed 22 students in a school in China. Luckily, no one died, but it just goes to show that there are murderous maniacs everywhere in the world, and they are going to try to hurt people no matter what they have available to them. It is lucky the guy didnt decide to use a gun instead, because even in a country where guns are banned, criminals still can obtain them. Do you think gangs in heavy gun control countries fight with knives?
I can't remember exact numbers but this is the 3rd or 4th attack like this in china in the last 5 years. I think or 3 times in 4 years. Any ways. Two instances were of men attacking children with blades and one used gasoline. But jobs exist any where. Regardless of what people think the second amendment gives me the right to defend myself against all tyranny foreign or domestic. If anything happens citizens need to have equal fire power to combat evil. In Indiana more police have been shot by other officers than police officers shot by legally carrying citizens. Why? Because 0 police officers have been shot by licensed citizens. Hunting rifles won't save you against a militia. Hand guns won't protect you against a militia. I understand people are afraid of guns and afraid of other people going crazy with them but when guns are out lawed the only ones with guns will be out laws.
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Old December 21st, 2012, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Originally Posted by jdndaddy View Post
I don't see why anyone would need an assault rifle, that just makes no sense to me. As far as gun control, I'm don't really lean too far one way or the other on it. I don't like guns. Never fired one, never owned one, and probably never will. I don't care if others do though. I've just never been attracted to them or seen the need for one personally.

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Why does anyone need swords, 1000HP engines or planes? The truth is they don't and all of those things can kill a lot of people if one was motivated. Guns are different in that unlike lots of things which are fun, interesting and possibly able to kill a lot of people the constitution of your county gives one a right, not a government granted privilege, to own them. Here in the EU you can go to jail for having material deemed hateful or offensive to certain groups, meaning anyone that isn't a male European heterosexual or a traditional Christian, and certainly no one can claim that one needs have material deemed hateful and it certainly is true that an insane person exposed to hateful material may harm someone so why not ban hateful stuff?

Since you are an American I assume you've heard what the people that your constitution had to say about the matter but may have forgotten as it's not the sort of thing that anyone thinks about often. Basically your founding fathers didn't trust government and didn't want a large standing army. Instead they wanted citizen militias (meaning every able bodied males) to be armed to protect the citizenry against oppression from within or out. Doing so means being armed. Note that they didn't advocate restricting arms to matchlocks of bygone eras since the point is to resist oppression. In modern terms that means having weapons capable of dealing with modern threats. This is not about hunting or looking cool but about checks and balances.

Now you are smart chap although I suspect that a lot sharp people may say "that is outdated thinking and that the threat of oppression is gone since we get to vote from time". Yet interestingly enough you've got a government in which both parties agree that anyone any where on planet (including Americans) can be detained, tortured and executed without any court proceedings at all thanks to the 2012 NDAA and it's all been put into effect a few times already. A wide range of laws passed since 9/11 have made it perfectly legal for any government agency to read your mail, listen to your phone and violate your privacy in pretty much any way they want without legal recourse. Given that traveling by plane or train meaning submitting to any invasion of privacy that some flunky demands and that you can be legally obligated to buy health insurance from a government approved vendors regardless of what you want to do perhaps all this talk about a oppression isn't so far out? Oh yeah, given how your Supreme Court ruled on the Citizens United Vs. the FEC it's rather debatable if you've got free elections or an auction.
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Old December 26th, 2012, 02:35 PM
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Default Re: Gun Control

[FONT=Verdana][FONT=Verdana]The way I see it, more regulations on gun ownership won't make us less safe but it may prevent or lessen some of these terrible tragedies. So, why not make it more difficult to obtain assault rifles or bullet piercing armor? I know it won’t address the deeper psychological/sociological problems we have, but I don’t know why something can't be done. [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana]I guess it’s a slippery slope that gun rights people are afraid of? I’m not being indignant, I would really like to know why this is a bad thing.[/FONT]
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Old December 27th, 2012, 04:57 AM
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Default Re: Gun Control

I am of the mind that we should be allowed to have weapons if we desire them because the rights of the individual are particularly important, and I trust people overall as well. People who possess guns legally are rarely the people to use them in crimes as well.

I think the real problem here is our lack of care in mental health. The mentally ill are largely ignored by almost every country on the planet. Caring for the mentally ill might not solve the problem but I'd wager it would help at least.

To be more precise I think military grade weapons should be regulated only because they can be so terrifying. But that is the case already in the USA so I don't see the point in fighting the system as much as patching holes in it.
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Old December 27th, 2012, 05:05 AM
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Default Re: Gun Control

Originally Posted by Meatless View Post
Do I think more should be done? Yes. Do I think that more will be done? No.
I am very much a supporter of our 2nd Amendment, but I also believe that allows for certain limits. Sure, almost anyone (except violent criminals, and the mentally ill) should be allowed hunting rifles. People should be allowed guns to protect themselves, and their homes and families. But when it comes to assault rifles and such, I believe they should be limited to, as the 2nd Amendment so eloquently states, members of a "Well regulated militia", including, but not restricted to the military, national guards, and police forces.

Simple fact is, I believe there is a correlation between the excessive gun violence in this country, and our gun laws, and something more needs to be done.
A Militia has no tie to the national guard, the national military, or police, a militia is a group of men of at least the age of majority who are armed and mildly trained to protect their specific area of land, such as a county, by this a regional gun club is a militia. A militia IS NOT commanded by a member of the executive branch or the legislative, it is commanded by the need for defense of the people, the belief that a militia is the same as national guard is an awful lie since they can be dispersed at the will of a governor to defend areas outside of their home state even to places where we are not engaged in war outside of our borders. The main reason people for gun control will have a VERY difficult time is that there exists that very important and original definition of militia.
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