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Flavor Predicament

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  #1  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:10 PM
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Default Flavor Predicament

Ok, so I just got a KM over the weekend and I've had the chance to smoke out of it a few times and I noticed something.

The smoke is thicker than with my old Sahara Candy Stripe, but the flavor is lacking, aka not as strong. I'm still using the same Vortex bowl, as well as my new Small Phunnel and have swapped them a couple times thinking it was just my lack of skill with a phunnel. I'm also using a Razan hose instead of my old one that came with the Sahara, and CH nats instead of Golden/Akhla QLs.

It's a 35" Al Gia KM, Razan, Vortex (on this go round) with a spiral hole pattern made with a safety pin (I normally do that), and 2.5/3 CH nats in a triangle shape. I shift the coals clockwise every 20-25 minutes or so when I ash.

My current bowl is HH DA, which last time in my Sahara almost knocked me over with flavor. This time I can barely taste it. The last bowl was HH Orange and Pomegranate, and the flavor was really weak as well. Can anybody tell me what's up?
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  #2  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

yeah your smoking HH DA thats why the flavor is lacking try some nakhla double apple or AF double apple then it will be like shazam!!
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Last edited by prince of hooka; April 22nd, 2011 at 09:59 PM.
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  #3  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by prince of hooka View Post
yeah your smoking HH DA thats why the flavor is lacking try some nakhla double apple or AF double apple then it will be like shazam!!
Thanks, I like my Hookah Hookah Double Apple. I'm just concerned about the overall lack of flavor, not just with this flavor. Hell, even the Pharaoh's Mint the other day was kinda weak.
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  #4  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:23 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

I've heard that the smaller diameter hoses like those that come with most hookah tend to lend more flavor to the smoke. Could be that it's a little less now that you're using a razan.
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  #5  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by xin666 View Post
I've heard that the smaller diameter hoses like those that come with most hookah tend to lend more flavor to the smoke. Could be that it's a little less now that you're using a razan.
That could be what it is... I don't know, it's just really weird.
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  #6  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

are you putting ice in the base? sometimes that can really kill the flavor.

oh and it is a beautiful hookah by the way!
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  #7  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Also more heat means more smoke, but less flavor, so play around with how many coals you're using. Colder water also lessens the flavor, and people have suggested room temperature water to enhance flavor.
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  #8  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGPOPPA View Post
are you putting ice in the base? sometimes that can really kill the flavor.

oh and it is a beautiful hookah by the way!
No ice. I only do that in the middle of summer and only with killer strong flavors.

Thanks! I take it you saw my other thread?

Quote:
Originally Posted by xin666 View Post
Also more heat means more smoke, but less flavor, so play around with how many coals you're using. Colder water also lessens the flavor, and people have suggested room temperature water to enhance flavor.
Yeah, I keep switching it around. One day I used two CH nats, one day three, one day two let 'em burn down and added a fresh (aka 2.5 sorta). The water is straight tap, room-ish temp.


I went ahead and switched my hose back to the sahara one, and I tell a bit of difference, but not alot. Just put fresh coals on too, and maybe I got them cooked a little more/less, but I can slightly tell a difference. It's a little better, but still not back up to par.

Is there any difference in flavor depending on the height of the hookah? My sahara was 22" and the KM is 35".

Maybe I'm just having an off week...
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  #9  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

i would say check for air leaks but you said the smoke is thicker so dont think its that. im stumped.
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  #10  
Old May 20th, 2009, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

The main flavor differences I noticed when it came to height, whether I was imagining it or not, was that on my shorter hookah there was more smoke/tobacco taste and less of whatever it's flavored to be. I generally get more flavor from my 36" KM than my 20-whatever" sahara cyclone. It's weird.
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  #11  
Old May 20th, 2009, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

It might also be the hookah gods being mad at me since I've just kinda been throwing coals on whenever I get a little while where I don't have to do anything. Been watching a 3-yr old, so nap time = hookah with a movie time. It's better than popcorn!
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  #12  
Old May 20th, 2009, 02:14 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

the hose may be it, when they are new the plastic taste in it kills everything. my suggestion is set up everything the way you used to use it but use the KM. if you still have issues set up both hookahs side by side and try it on your old hookah until it is how it should taste then move it all over and see how it changes

did you clean the KM since you got it?

-matt
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  #13  
Old May 20th, 2009, 02:28 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
the hose may be it, when they are new the plastic taste in it kills everything. my suggestion is set up everything the way you used to use it but use the KM. if you still have issues set up both hookahs side by side and try it on your old hookah until it is how it should taste then move it all over and see how it changes

did you clean the KM since you got it?

-matt
I rinsed it out really well, and took the brush to the stem and vase with hot water. The hose, I've run lemon juice around in it.
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  #14  
Old May 20th, 2009, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeriekitsune View Post
I rinsed it out really well, and took the brush to the stem and vase with hot water. The hose, I've run lemon juice around in it.
ok well for the hose when you inhale on it w/o it hooked up do you get much of a plastic taste? i know that when i got my nammors they took a long time to get the plastic taste kicked out even with lemon and baking soda rinses and it killed the flavors

-matt
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  #15  
Old May 21st, 2009, 08:39 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by xin666 View Post
Also more heat means more smoke, but less flavor, so play around with how many coals you're using.
I disagree to this statement.. I think youve confused it with something else but this is not true..more heat does not mean less flavour but it does mean more clouds. and more clouds does not mean less flavour if its because of the heat.. rather if its because of you have a very wide hose like a razor, then it means less flavour..
But you should pump that heat on as much as _possible_ to get maximum taste without it burning.. so rotate the coals every now and then as well..
Possible in this meaning is depending on alot of things.. how you apcked ur tobacco, what coals ur using, what type of foil, hole pattern, windcover and such..
So this is a very experimental thing and individual.. so try to learn some from eachs moking experience as well and suddenly one day u have learned a ultimate forumla to smoke a great bowl packed with example nakhla or AF ..

Last edited by reality-; May 21st, 2009 at 08:42 AM.
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  #16  
Old May 21st, 2009, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Washeble hose lack in flavour compared to leather hoses but leather hoses go bad after a while because of all the flavours mixing up in it.. thats the trade-off.
I have a nammor to smoke everything, but i have leather hoses for each of my favourites, e.g double apple.
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  #17  
Old May 21st, 2009, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

I will actually vouch for the hose diameter. I've been smoking with my Razan lately and I wasn't to impressed with the flavor I was getting. Flavors that were strong became meh? but I was getting clouds. I then smoked with a MYA hose and all the flavor came back...wtf? Can anyone explain this?
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  #18  
Old May 21st, 2009, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Hookahman .. we have been explaining this alot lately.. hold on let me find the thread for you .. it was just a few days ago the latest one..

here you go for example..:
http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11919
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  #19  
Old May 21st, 2009, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by reality- View Post
I disagree to this statement.. I think youve confused it with something else but this is not true..more heat does not mean less flavour but it does mean more clouds. and more clouds does not mean less flavour if its because of the heat.. rather if its because of you have a very wide hose like a razor, then it means less flavour..
But you should pump that heat on as much as _possible_ to get maximum taste without it burning.. so rotate the coals every now and then as well..
Possible in this meaning is depending on alot of things.. how you apcked ur tobacco, what coals ur using, what type of foil, hole pattern, windcover and such..
So this is a very experimental thing and individual.. so try to learn some from eachs moking experience as well and suddenly one day u have learned a ultimate forumla to smoke a great bowl packed with example nakhla or AF ..
some tobaccos are this way, SB is, most others not so much but there are some. i dont understand how you see that wider gauge hoses give less flavor

-matt
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  #20  
Old May 21st, 2009, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
i dont understand how you see that wider gauge hoses give less flavor

-matt
it's nonsense...I get full flavor from my nammors and razans.
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  #21  
Old May 21st, 2009, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
it's nonsense...I get full flavor from my nammors and razans.
i could see how people would seem to get more flavor on the inhale since you suck harder on smaller hoses thus have your mouth smaller so the smoke touches in a way that seems more flavorful

-matt
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  #22  
Old May 21st, 2009, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
i could see how people would seem to get more flavor on the inhale since you suck harder on smaller hoses thus have your mouth smaller so the smoke touches in a way that seems more flavorful

-matt
or maybe the smoke stays in your mouth longer and absorbs more flavor. I try not to inhale too fast while using a wide gauge hose so maybe try slowing down on your inhale.
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  #23  
Old May 21st, 2009, 09:57 AM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
it's nonsense...I get full flavor from my nammors and razans.
I agree, I taste Nakhla out of my 30"er for a long time after I'm done.
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  #24  
Old May 21st, 2009, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

its not nonsence that wider hoses give mroe smoke / less flavour while smaller gives more flavour less smoke..
it's just a opinion shared by many others here as we have discussed in different threads.. Some agree some dont agree but its not nonsence..

Matt: "some tobaccos are this way, SB is, most others not so much but there are some..."
I feel that both nakhla and AF is this way as well.. Less heat will not work them up proberly.. Like Af will get this ticekling feeling in the throat and taste bad if its not getting full effect of heat and nakhla doesnt have the tickeling feeling but it wont perform well if not given enough heat...

this is all my opinion based on lots and lots of smoking for several years but no its not facts written in black and white so some agree some disagree ... Its alright

Last edited by reality-; May 21st, 2009 at 04:54 PM.
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  #25  
Old May 21st, 2009, 12:19 PM
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Default Re: Flavor Predicament

Quote:
Originally Posted by reality- View Post
its not nonsence that wider hoses give mroe smoke / less flavour while smaller gives more flavour less smoke..
it's just a opinion shared by many others here as we have discussed in different threads.. Some agree some dont agree but pls dont call this nonsence..

Matt: "some tobaccos are this way, SB is, most others not so much but there are some..."
I feel that both nakhla and AF is this way as well.. Less heat will not work them up proberly.. Like Af will get this ticekling feeling in the throat and taste bad if its not getting full effect of heat and nakhla doesnt have the tickeling feeling but it wont perform well if not given enough heat...

this is all my opinion based on lots and lots of smoking for several years but no its not facts written in black and white so some agree some disagree ... Its alright
i think that low heat does take it longer for the tobacco to start going and get the correct taste, once it heats up less heat can still give you good flavor with less smoke but the flavor is just lighter. but AF for sure when lighting up will taste soapy until it gets going, SB does too, some of the SB flavors handle the heat each way better but blue mist sure has a small window of allowance. i dont notice it much with nakhla, but i also have been heating my bowls up fast the last few months (coals on not hanging off with a wind cover to get it hot in 4-5 mins then move them to hang off in another place and it keeps it the right temps)

-matt
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