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  #1  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 12:14 AM
Hajo Flettner
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Default On tobacco

On thing that surprises and disappoints me is the common sentiment that equates tobacco with the bad tastes of cigarettes and that smoke need to have additives to be enjoyable. Hearing someone say they donít like the taste of tobacco since theyíve had plenty of cigarettes is like saying you donít wagyu steak because youíve eaten lots of spam. Tobacco smoke is exactly like wine or ale in that it has a texture or body if you will as well as a range of tastes ranging from vile to sublime. Like a good wine or ale tobacco requires care in choosing it, care in storing it and care in consuming it if one hopes to enjoy what it has to offer.

Decent tobacco can have a vast range of flavours that simply canít be had in cigarettes. Wood, spice, floral, pepper, coffee and earth tones are the most common elements found in high quality tobacco free of additives and are enough to provide cornucopia of flavours far more complicated and interesting then the normal fruit/sugar/drink flavours we all know so well.

Now I donít want anyone to get to me wrong and think that I hate fruity, light smoke since I enjoy that sort of thing from time to time but I really wish people would be a bit more broad minded when it comes seeing tobacco as flavourful in itís own right. Also, have grown to not like the texture that glycerin imparts to smoke and I am more often then not bored with fruity/sugary/drink flavoured products.

Hopefully this will get a few people willing to reach out and try something out of the ordinary and appreciate the subtleties that simple leaf can give.
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  #2  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 12:18 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

I agree. That is part of the reason I'm smoking more cigars than hookah these days.
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  #3  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
Hopefully this will get a few people willing to reach out and try something out of the ordinary and appreciate the subtleties that simple leaf can give.
Hajo speaks nothing but the truth. It was his article about traditionals on Hookah-Life that got me to try Desi plain and Salloum plain. A different experience to be sure when you understand tobacco flavor complexities. They are now staples in my cabinet.
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  #4  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 01:14 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

For those out there that really enjoy fruity and/or washed flavored shisha, don't write this topic off! In all likelihood if you were to order something like Nakhla Zaghloul, Desi Murli, Salloum plain, etc, you wouldn't like most of the flavors at first but they would certainly grow on you as your palate comes to appreciate their subtleties.

I really enjoy my small wooden pipe too and couldn't agree more with comparing cigarettes to the infamous "box" of wine. They're just disgusting things most of the time. I do like American Spirit cigs okay though.
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  #5  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 01:57 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

i have a wood pipe here somewhere, but i havent found a tabacoo i like for it yet, i havnt given up but im fairly happy with my hookah and i really dont want smoking to become an easy quick or highly portable anyways, i liek the hookah, takes time, not very portable, keeps everything in check for me.
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  #6  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 01:59 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

I put bark in my rollies, it gives me that nice woody flavor
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  #7  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 02:17 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

I completely agree. My cigar collection stands as proof. As does the rate at which it's stock fluctuates.
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  #8  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

Hajo How are you my friend here in sunny Zuma land we do not have all those luxuries that you speak off we make do with what we can get where and when we can. Some of my best smokes was made with brown paper and BB tobacco (pure unflavored tobacco) (BB for best blend marketed for the super low income group sold in cheap plastic bags) RYO papers were non existant or to expensive. I like my Cavendish pipe tobacco and cigars when I can afford them plus my RYO when they have my tobacco in stock. Still serching for a stockist of Zag saloum and DM here in SA.
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  #9  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

I am glad to see this thread has gotten a little traction. I am big far of cigars and Western style pipes as well and itís great see that people in enjoy them. However, great natural tasting tobacco can be had from moassel that is easily had in the states or can be made without much work. When I get the chance Iíll put up some info about certain combos, recipes and whatnot but for now Iíll put a couple of suggestions.

In terms of traditional black moassel what is available in the states is: Salloum plain, Cleopatra plain, Zaghloul & Zaghloul light (I think). Desi Merli plain is sort of itís own thing but a lot like the black stuff I mentioned and probably the best single product on the American market. Hookah-Hookah Cavendish a great, cheap easy to get product that milder then anything else Iíve mentioned so far and very nice on itís own or blended with other stuff. Lastly Indian and Jordanian style tombac is easy to get in the states and whileís it a bit much for peoples used to thinking that what they smoke should taste like a jolly rancher it can be easily be processed into homemade moassel or combined with a few tamer, easy to get products to make a nice, mellow smoke.

Cigars and super high quality pipe tobacco are great but they also are pretty pricey. Luckily it easy to get something as rich and as complicated if different for use with are narghiles. Keep an eye out for more on these issues.
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  #10  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 03:33 PM
Hajo Flettner
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Default Re: On tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by glostersa View Post
Hajo How are you my friend here in sunny Zuma land we do not have all those luxuries that you speak off we make do with what we can get where and when we can. Some of my best smokes was made with brown paper and BB tobacco (pure unflavored tobacco) (BB for best blend marketed for the super low income group sold in cheap plastic bags) RYO papers were non existant or to expensive. I like my Cavendish pipe tobacco and cigars when I can afford them plus my RYO when they have my tobacco in stock. Still serching for a stockist of Zag saloum and DM here in SA.
Back in my Rhodie days I was introduced to cigars and I got to smoke basically everything for cheap (even the Cuban brands and stuff from the Canary Islands) since the dad of a pal of mine from the PATU and later the light infantry owned a really nice tobacco shop/mail order operation and had more money then he knew what to do with.

In Zumaland it sounds like decent tobacco left about the same time as civilization, relative safety and reliable utilities. My guess is you'll have to mail order DM and such from the U.S. which is isn't as bad as it sounds since the prices is cheap and a couple kilos in shipping fees is worth it. I'll have some G2 up soon on making moassel with pipe tobacco which should help things out as well so keep an eye open.
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  #11  
Old July 3rd, 2009, 06:37 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

well all i can say is desi rocks i love the stuff im gonna order a load of the stuff once i get nack on my feet. I have to thank bigpoppa for hooking me up with this wonderfull stuff
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  #12  
Old July 4th, 2009, 11:18 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

you mean that paying more for something can make it better? psht ya right

</sarcasm>

ya i always get annoyed when people either dont understand quality in anything or just say "o no i like this cheap X" like my friends that liek black and milds or gas station cigars, same with the people that just smoke what ever moassel shisha with what ever coals in a dirty rig, i just cant even stand to take one pull on.

-matt
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  #13  
Old July 4th, 2009, 12:01 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

As Dunkel stated, this is precisely the reason I am almost exclusively smoking cigars. Ohh, well, Seven Spice gets my love and attention as well.
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  #14  
Old July 4th, 2009, 12:57 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post
As Dunkel stated, this is precisely the reason I am almost exclusively smoking cigars. Ohh, well, Seven Spice gets my love and attention as well.
if i had the money and a nice patio up at school i would smoke cigars more frequently, right now i am at one ever few months and my humidor isnt the best for now... o well

-matt
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  #15  
Old July 4th, 2009, 09:16 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

Cigars, for some reason, get written off as things that big wigs with expendable income purchase. I mean, yeah, I sink low enough to get a black and mild every once in a while, but I do enjoy my pricey cigars. Luckily, my neighbor lets me keep them in his humidor. As for DM or Zag, I'm kind of iffy to try them, I'm not sure why, but I am...
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  #16  
Old July 5th, 2009, 09:36 AM
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Default Re: On tobacco

I smoke a lot of Zagloul, and another type similar made in Ramallah,Palestine which is a small company but has nice stuff ."Ibn Al-Balad" (Son of the Nation). I wish I could get the Desi either from India or America but shipping and customs is a bear. Real Iranian dry tombak I have had a few times in the Jerusalem Arab market which comes there from Iran to Iraq to Jordan to Israel.I paid $3.75 for a 3 inch squared box of dry flakes. (Rub it 3 times, it inflates into a suitcase!)Actually, after washing and rinsing with water there is quite a lot of it.Around 200 grams.
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  #17  
Old July 5th, 2009, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

Good comments from everyone! In regards to what Shushynes" comments here is some info about starting out with more traditional style moasssel.

If you are like 99% of narghile fans you mostly have only smoked mod style stuff from the gulf states or the U.S. (or if you are outside you U.S. you've likely tired mode stuff from Germany or France) so here is how you get into what I "the good stuff" gently.

First go get some Zaghloul, Cleopatra or Salloum plain and then get honey of vanilla flavoured Al Waha or Hookah-Hookah or Hookah-Hookah cavendish and a little bit of molasses.

Next, get your hands good and wet and get small chunk of what is likely to be dried out Zaghloul and brea it up in a little finger bowl. Take care to throw out the stems and rinse your hands regularly. Once the Zaghloul (or what ever) is broken up fully drizzle in just enough molasses to make the tobacco feel moistand make sure your fingers stay
wet.

Then, what needs to hGood comments from everyone! In regards to what Shushynes" comments here is some info about starting out with more traditional style moasssel.appen is that you mix equal portions of the black moassel with AW/H-H and you are ready to pack a bowl.

When you smoke draw slowly and savor the taste. Don't bother try to make clouds and just concintrate on the flavours. Wait a good 15 or 20 seconds between draws. Drink lots of water, tea or coffe and eat some fruit while you smoke (apple works best for me).

The key thing is to pay attention to all the subtle flavours and note just how different it is then mod moassel. Look it like a good wine/ale and you'll get more out of it.

Any other questions about set or what not just ask.
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  #18  
Old July 9th, 2009, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

Great post! I know where you are coming from. I came to the hookah from briar pipes. I still enjoy my pipes as much as I do the hookah. In my pipes, I smoke natural blends, that is, all natural tobaccos, blended to taste. I never really liked the aromatics, as they tend to bite and smoke wet. It is amazing how many different blends can be made using the same basic ingredients! Look at Cornell and Diehl, for example. They must have hundreds of blends, all from burley, virginia, latakia, turkish and perique. I came to the hookah, looking for an aromatic experience, but am glad to find a strong traditional tobacco presence as well.
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  #19  
Old July 9th, 2009, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

I like your thinking Hajo. I always mix other flavors with Zag and Salloum Plain. My favorite mixes with the plain tobaccos are with either Havana Honey Banana, Havana Pipe, AF Pipe, AF Banana, Nakhla Caramel, Nakhla Chocomint, AW Vanilla, or AW Cherry.

Regarding the molasses. I was at a grocery store the other day and found Grandma's Molasses brand in "Regular" and a "Robust." Which flavor is recommended to mix with hookah tobacco? There is more information on the company's website.

http://www.grandmasmolasses.com/gran...s_products.asp

Also, do you use glycerine when you are using molasses or do you only use glycerine when mixing with honey?

Last edited by AngriestPhx; July 9th, 2009 at 01:55 PM.
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  #20  
Old July 9th, 2009, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

well, if any of you guys have heard of boswells pipe tobacco, i come from the same town where boswell makes pipes and tobacco. and i smoke a bit of pipe every once in a great while(christmas cookie). i dont like to smoke anything but hookah, because to me its rough, and makes my taste buds disappear. but i mean i hear what you guys are saying. in my opinion i think that cigs are kinda like getting walmart brand candy, but hookah is enjoying confectioners chocolate. you know what i mean? i dont want smoking to become a habit for myself so i stay clear from all that stuff. anything is good in moderation. but hey, thats just me.
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  #21  
Old July 20th, 2009, 02:15 PM
Hajo Flettner
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Default Re: On tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by smoke eater View Post
Great post! I know where you are coming from. I came to the hookah from briar pipes. I still enjoy my pipes as much as I do the hookah. In my pipes, I smoke natural blends, that is, all natural tobaccos, blended to taste. I never really liked the aromatics, as they tend to bite and smoke wet. It is amazing how many different blends can be made using the same basic ingredients! Look at Cornell and Diehl, for example. They must have hundreds of blends, all from burley, virginia, latakia, turkish and perique. I came to the hookah, looking for an aromatic experience, but am glad to find a strong traditional tobacco presence as well.
What most narghile fans are missing out on. Looking at tobacco as some generic product like say, cheese wiz is basically missing out on everything that makes tobacco worth while. Tobacco leaves vary greatly and the ways they are cured and blended give an almost unlimited range of flavors that can't be found in any food products.
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  #22  
Old July 20th, 2009, 02:19 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by AngriestPhx View Post
I like your thinking Hajo. I always mix other flavors with Zag and Salloum Plain. My favorite mixes with the plain tobaccos are with either Havana Honey Banana, Havana Pipe, AF Pipe, AF Banana, Nakhla Caramel, Nakhla Chocomint, AW Vanilla, or AW Cherry.

Regarding the molasses. I was at a grocery store the other day and found Grandma's Molasses brand in "Regular" and a "Robust." Which flavor is recommended to mix with hookah tobacco? There is more information on the company's website.

http://www.grandmasmolasses.com/gran...s_products.asp

Also, do you use glycerine when you are using molasses or do you only use glycerine when mixing with honey?
Mixing is a great way to be gradually introduced to real tobacco flavours.

I started a whole thread about the use of molasses which has mountains of info on what is best for what sort of application. Check it out.

I generally don't uses honey and I only use glycerin when I use moassel that is overly dry. You know, stuff like Afzal, Salloum, Nakhla and such.
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  #23  
Old July 20th, 2009, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by brutalmetals View Post
well, if any of you guys have heard of boswells pipe tobacco, i come from the same town where boswell makes pipes and tobacco. and i smoke a bit of pipe every once in a great while(christmas cookie). i dont like to smoke anything but hookah, because to me its rough, and makes my taste buds disappear. but i mean i hear what you guys are saying. in my opinion i think that cigs are kinda like getting walmart brand candy, but hookah is enjoying confectioners chocolate. you know what i mean? i dont want smoking to become a habit for myself so i stay clear from all that stuff. anything is good in moderation. but hey, thats just me.
I agree that moderation is the way to go. No chaining, no multiple bowls and no cloud contests for me.

As to tobacco like Boswells being harsh my guess is that you are not smoking correctly. Western style Briar pipes are meant to smoked extremely gingerly with no inhaling and waiting 30-45 seconds between pulls. Of course you have to know how to load and tamp a pipe to get a good session and that does take practice. Personally, I have found that narghiles are a lot easier to use then Western pipes so if you wnat to try out real tobacco flavour then i'd suggest starting with a narghile.

Basically the best way to get into real tobacco is by mixing something like DM, Zaghloul, Salloum Plain or H-H cavendish with something like a good a good vanilla, honey or coffe flavoured moassel. Startout at about half and half and work down over a few sessions until you are smoking just the straight, unflavoured and washed moassel. You may also want to try the various flavoured DM products since they are all great and very cheap.

Lastly, smoke only on a full stomach with plenty of water/tea/coffee on hand and some fresh fruit. Wait at least 30 seconds between draws, inhale shallowly or not at all and use the best coals you can get. If you have any other set up question just ask.
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  #24  
Old July 20th, 2009, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: On tobacco

I smoked Nat Sherman's MCDs for the last 6 months of that habit. Quite possibly the most enjoyable cigarette on the market.

Everyonce in awhile I still get the hankering for one but it passes quickly.
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