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Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

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  #1  
Old July 21st, 2009, 05:57 PM
Hajo Flettner
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Default Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

This sort of thing really infuriates me. Some prissy would be commissar deciding what someone else can't do at home. The truth is that you don't have property rights at all if someone else can decide what you can do with what you own. When I listen to Americans talk about exporting freedom
I have to laugh bitterly when I know that most people in many third world dictatorships have more freedom in how they conduct their lives then do Americans in some respects. Look to seeing more of this petty tyranny spreading as your friendly neighborhood NKVD decides how you should live.
_______________________________________________

Residents of Fairfax Parkside development near South Middle School no longer will be allowed to smoke in their homes after a decision last week by the homeowners association.

Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

By Julian Emerson
Leader-Telegram staff

It's not just indoor public places in Eau Claire where lighting up is prohibited. Now residents of a south side, owner-occupied housing complex will have to snuff out smoking in their homes, the most recent sign of public anti-smoking sentiment.

Members of the Fairfax Parkside Homeowners Association on Wednesday voted to outlaw smoking inside residences that are part of the 34-unit development. The ban also prohibits smoking in shared spaces, such as porches and garages, but does allow it in yards and on patios.

Of the 19 association members who voted on the issue, 15 favored the anti-smoking regulation proposed by association President Dave Hanvelt, while four argued that residents should be allowed to smoke in their homes.

"This doesn't restrict a smoker from living here," Hanvelt said of the smoking prohibition. "It just means that there are restrictions on where they can smoke."

Fairfax Parkside is believed to be the first Eau Claire development in which homeowners aren't allowed to light up indoors.

"I'm not aware of any other instances where that is the case," said Julie Marlette, coordinator of the Tobacco Free Partnership of Eau Claire County.

The adoption of the indoor anti-smoking rule likely won't impact many Fairfax Parkside homeowners, as Hanvelt said he doesn't know of any smokers in the development. But it does restrict future homeowners there from smoking, and visitors also won't be allowed to smoke inside.

"You don't want to have to worry about your non-smoking neighbor moving out and a smoker moving in," he said.

Hanvelt proposed the regulation earlier this year because homeowners in the development own twin homes, or each side of a duplex-style home. Because of their close proximity, smoke from one unit could flow into the one next door.

"If we all lived in separate units, this wouldn't have been necessary," Hanvelt said, noting homeowners association members made sure to allow outdoor smoking so as to not be too restrictive.

The Fairfax Parkside regulation marks an extension of non-smoking rules from public places to private residences. Last year the Eau Claire City Council approved a controversial ban on smoking in indoor public places, including taverns.

The issue prompted heated response from people on both sides of the issue, and opponents were concerned that the ban could open the door to prohibitions on smoking in people's homes.

Word of the smoking restriction enacted at Fairfax Parkside has some people fuming.

"We worried that this might happen, and now it appears that it has," said Sally Jo Birtzer, a nonsmoker who is president of the Eau Claire City-County Tavern League and general manager of Wagner's Lanes. "As long as tobacco is a legal product, people should be allowed to smoke it in their own homes."

While preventing smoking in privately owned homes is unusual, prohibiting the practice in rental residences isn't unheard of in Eau Claire and elsewhere. Some landlords don't allow renters to smoke indoors in an effort to keep those living quarters cleaner and to reduce the chances of a house fire.

Stomping out smoking in multifamily rental units is a growing trend in other parts of the U.S., Marlette said.

"I think people are recognizing the exposure that is occurring to secondhand smoke in multiunit housing," she said. "It is definitely a bona fide health issue, and I think we're going to see more requests for those units to go smoke free."

Dave FitzGerald, one of the Fairfax Parkside developers who also lives there, initially questioned whether the non-smoking measure would hinder future sales in an already tough housing market. But FitzGerald, a nonsmoker, said the anti-smoking rule could attract buyers too, especially given that nearly four of every five people don't smoke.

"Could we lose a sale to somebody who is a smoker? Certainly," FitzGerald said. "But I think there is a better chance of having somebody be willing to live here because there isn't any smoking."

Hanvelt knows firsthand the frustrations of living next to a smoker in a shared-space residence. He previously spent thousands of dollars at a former residence retrofitting his unit to prevent cigarette smoke from a next-door neighbor from making its way to his home, but the effort proved unsuccessful, he said.

Now he looks forward to living in a smoke-free environment.

"We adopted this for our own safety and health," Hanvelt said. "This is a very nice place to live, and we want to keep it that way."

Emerson can be reached at 830-5911, 800-236-7077 or julian.emerson@ecpc.com.

http://www.leadertelegram.com/story-...id=BKKD5TMRL20
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  #2  
Old July 21st, 2009, 06:13 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
I have to laugh bitterly when I know that most people in many third world dictatorships have more freedom in how they conduct their lives then do Americans in some respects. Look to seeing more of this petty tyranny spreading as your friendly neighborhood NKVD decides how you should live.
I agree Hajo.

This will becoming to a neighborhood near you. Real soon. The time has passed for any one to stand up and end this tyranny. It has gained too much momentum. Depressing.
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  #3  
Old July 21st, 2009, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

/facepalm this makes me sad.
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Old July 21st, 2009, 06:25 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

Sadly the days of true American freedom is coming to an end. The government is gradually becoming more and more the "BigBrother" that had been written about. Now groups like this one are finding it easier to come up with their own rules and determine how people are to live. They see our Government succeeding at stripping us of our rights and freedoms and it gives them courage to dictate how others live.
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  #5  
Old July 21st, 2009, 11:02 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

ya ti sucks but it just comes down to if you dont like it dont live there, when an owner changes a lease like that you cant say much (since its rented housing)

glad im in VA so theres little chance of much smoking bans past the having separate sections with proper ventilation if establishment the is over X size (if its below you dont have to have 2 sections) and then they can say no smoking with in like 15 or 30 feet of an entrance or something like that.

-matt
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

correct me if i'm wrong, but this sounds like it is in like a community of houses.
they don't own the house or land they are just allowed to live there.
i think of this the same way as a "non-smoking hotel room".
you are allowed to live there under their rules for a certain amount of time,
as long as you pay the fees on the contract you sign in the beginning.

if this is for people that own their own house, and their own land, and they are not doing anything illegal, then this really infuriates me. tobacco is legal in all 50 states, the bars and restaurants are pretty much all non-smoking now. if i was smoking my hookah and a sheriff came into my house and he told me i was being fined/arrested for smoking tobacco in my house, i might just end up with additional charges such as assault on an officer, battery, etc.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 02:33 AM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

I love these forums lol. That part in bold you highlighted Hajo is really weird.


Big Brother is one of the biggest problems in this country and the sad thing is it's everywhere. Anyone ever read 1984? Or Ayn Rand? There are definitely parallels occurring in our society... The thing that gets to me the most is probably the cable news networks dumbing us down into zombies. I'll stop there.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

i didnt even notice that bolt part (didnt read through the whole article) but that doesnt show that smoke permeates its shows the the builder sucked and couldnt put an envelope worth to shits on the buildings. along with no envelope/firewalls between apartments/condos

-matt
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  #9  
Old July 22nd, 2009, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

if your just smoking hookah.....then who cares. do it anyway. Ive been living in a smoke free building for 6 months its not like they will come inspect (maybe they will I didnt read the letter lol) its really the cigarettes that fawk it up. i ve heard of walls needing repainting due to just rank cig lingering
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  #10  
Old July 22nd, 2009, 09:33 AM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

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Originally Posted by McLovin600 View Post
if your just smoking hookah.....then who cares. do it anyway. Ive been living in a smoke free building for 6 months its not like they will come inspect (maybe they will I didnt read the letter lol) its really the cigarettes that fawk it up. i ve heard of walls needing repainting due to just rank cig lingering
you could honestly argue semantics on it even since hookah it technically not smoked

-matt
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

good luck trying that where i live, to many rednecks with guns that make the police faces turn pale, they already shoot each other here over matters of which beer taste better (seriously) so i imagine if someone tells one of them to not smok ein their house (or apt) they will happily tell them to go on and hit the ole dust trail before yerself finds some hurtin.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 10:42 AM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

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Originally Posted by opticalshadow View Post
good luck trying that where i live, to many rednecks with guns that make the police faces turn pale, they already shoot each other here over matters of which beer taste better (seriously) so i imagine if someone tells one of them to not smok ein their house (or apt) they will happily tell them to go on and hit the ole dust trail before yerself finds some hurtin.
lulz !!!!!
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

if i own it i will do what i want in it and they can stick it up their @ss
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 12:27 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

My university im attending this fall is planning on making the entire campus smoke and tobacco free. This means no cigarettes, chewing tobacco, hookah, nothing. At first I thought, it would never happen. But there already seems to be a plan in place with a rather large group supporting them. By the looks of it, our campus will be smoke free by 2010. I will still be in school too. So far, they have had small little campagins across the university about smoking and chewing. And in all on campus buildings, student apartments, dorms ect, smoking is illegal. But, the good news is that I am surrounded by mountains and forests. Smokey the bear never said anything about hookahs in the forest did he?
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 01:07 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

seriously what are they going to do if your chewing tobacco in your room, i dont see how they can say or do much about dipping. i think my dorms freshman year were tobacco free (you couldnt smoke in them at all) but i had friends that would smoke hookah in their rooms and i dipped in front of my RA (then again he could give a crap less what we did as long as we werent using drugs in the dorms, were going to hurt our selves, or were keeping him up at night/keeping him from studying)

-matt
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

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seriously what are they going to do if your chewing tobacco in your room, i dont see how they can say or do much about dipping. i think my dorms freshman year were tobacco free (you couldnt smoke in them at all) but i had friends that would smoke hookah in their rooms and i dipped in front of my RA (then again he could give a crap less what we did as long as we werent using drugs in the dorms, were going to hurt our selves, or were keeping him up at night/keeping him from studying)

-matt
Yea, im not in school yet, but when i met the RA's they seemed to be pretty cool. But my friend asked if we could chew in the dorms and they said no. They said that if you had you door open and they saw you take a pinch from a tin, then you would get written up.

Rules like that really suck, i mean, theres no smoke, flame, or anything. Of course, im not going to listen though. You get like 5 strikes. This includes drinking, smoking too. It kinda bums me, but at the same time, it is exciting. I remember the times when i was a young lad and i would steal my brothers hookah and smoke it in our basement. My parents had no idea, but it was lots of fun kindof hiding it from them. It adds a new dimension to hookah than what i normally would have just in my room at home now.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

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Originally Posted by Coldgr33ntea View Post
Yea, im not in school yet, but when i met the RA's they seemed to be pretty cool. But my friend asked if we could chew in the dorms and they said no. They said that if you had you door open and they saw you take a pinch from a tin, then you would get written up.

Rules like that really suck, i mean, theres no smoke, flame, or anything. Of course, im not going to listen though. You get like 5 strikes. This includes drinking, smoking too. It kinda bums me, but at the same time, it is exciting. I remember the times when i was a young lad and i would steal my brothers hookah and smoke it in our basement. My parents had no idea, but it was lots of fun kindof hiding it from them. It adds a new dimension to hookah than what i normally would have just in my room at home now.
just dip in the shower, just spit on the drain. idk how the bathrooms are but we had a bathroom between our suite as apposed to communal

-matt
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

Thats pretty stupid, it seems like if you were giving someone your money to stay in a house, you would be able to do pretty much anything you want. Especially smoke or use tobacco products
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by hookaholic3639 View Post
Thats pretty stupid, it seems like if you were giving someone your money to stay in a house, you would be able to do pretty much anything you want. Especially smoke or use tobacco products
smoking is a common thing listed as you cant do in a lease same with pets because it means more cleaning and more work for the land lord/maintenance to do before they have some one else move in. as to the dipping, ya but a school can do what they want to do on that kind of things, granted it might not hold up well in court but if you sign a document saying you will not do X in a piece of property owned by others you dont have much room to argue after you sign

-matt
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

Unfortunately, the only way to be able to exercise alot of your "rights" is in your own Single Family Detached Residence. The days of being able to "live" in any attached residential housing are long gone.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

Ive been renting a house for the last 2 years and under my contract im not suppose to smoke but Ive been smoking inside since the first week I moved in. haha. Ive even had the landlord come over minutes after I was smoking and he couldnt tell that I was smoking before he showed up.

On a side note, my rez is trying to become a dry rez (meaning no alcohol allowed on the rez) and Ive been to many rezs that are dry and I sucks because if you forget that you can have ANY alcohol with you, even if you are planning on drinking it at home, you will get a fine.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 04:38 PM
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Ive been renting a house for the last 2 years and under my contract im not suppose to smoke but Ive been smoking inside since the first week I moved in. haha. Ive even had the landlord come over minutes after I was smoking and he couldnt tell that I was smoking before he showed up.

On a side note, my rez is trying to become a dry rez (meaning no alcohol allowed on the rez) and Ive been to many rezs that are dry and I sucks because if you forget that you can have ANY alcohol with you, even if you are planning on drinking it at home, you will get a fine.
i can understand why they want to go to a dry rez with all the issues out there but i remember seeing something where they were talking about a "dry" rez that they went around every night and picked up a bunch of drunks. i think the only thing thats going to help is that the kids are getting off the rez and going to college then coming back and helping instead of just sitting around not doing anything and falling into the same issues

-matt
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 04:55 PM
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i can understand why they want to go to a dry rez with all the issues out there but i remember seeing something where they were talking about a "dry" rez that they went around every night and picked up a bunch of drunks. i think the only thing thats going to help is that the kids are getting off the rez and going to college then coming back and helping instead of just sitting around not doing anything and falling into the same issues

-matt
I know exactly what you mean but alot of the time that kids that do make something of themselves never come back.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 05:49 PM
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I know exactly what you mean but alot of the time that kids that do make something of themselves never come back.
ya or the locals around the rez get scared that the new lawyer is going to go dig up the old treaties and prove that the rez should own the farmers land and end up killing said young lawyer when all that was wanted was a "your right, our ancestors screwed your ancestors, our country (us) is going to compensate your country (the tribal nation) for that, heres money for what the land is worth"

-matt
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Old July 23rd, 2009, 02:34 PM
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Default Re: Housing complex owners vote to ban smoking

Good posts everyone! Basically what this comes down is a few points -

1) The notion that second hand smoke is a health risk is without basis in scientific reality yet it's become a means to control behavior and that is wrong.
2) I found it extremely worrisome that products can, in practical effect, be banned simply because most people don't like it. Non-smokers frequently heap scorn upon smokers and actively seek to force smokers to cease something they as adults chose to do. That is obnoxious and a threat to liberty.
3) When you move into a residence the management or owners association shouldn't be able to change the terms of your residency simply because you choose to do something that they don't like.
4) Home owner associations have enacted smoking bans on home owners of single family houses as well as a bunch of other unreasonable restrictions on one's personal home life. Such actions are an affront to liberty.
5) Bogus science (i.e. second hand smoke) is being used as an excuse to separate children from their parents in custody battles which just goes to show that the downside of junk science made public policy is virtually limitless.
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