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Is our hobby going to vannish?

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  #1  
Old November 12th, 2007, 09:43 PM
Hajo Flettner
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Default Is our hobby going to vannish?

I was talking with an older club member today and he told me that he thinks the whole narghile culture that is popping up in the West is going to vanish. His thinking is that hassle of set and cleaning is something that will drive away many current smokers when the novelty has worn off. He also thinks that for most Americans the hectic lifestyle here makes it impossible for for anyone not in school or retired to be into the hobby without a conscious effort. He also thinks that lounges will vanish do to anti-smoking laws.

I'm not sure I agree although the basic notions he said seems plausible. Cigars were a big deal 12-15 years ago but since then the "hippness" of cigars have wained, prices are far less then what they should be given inflation, companies have vanished and the whole cigar scene is much smaller then it used to be. Of course cigars have been pushed as a very up market pass time which has the added benefit of no prep time or clean up which I think has contributed to the cigar biz toughing out the the end of the boom.

What do you guys think? Passing fad or here to stay at currently level of public interest?
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  #2  
Old November 12th, 2007, 10:24 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I wasn't old enough to remember when cigars were around 12-15 years ago but just curious...was it as common to college students back then as hookah is now?
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  #3  
Old November 12th, 2007, 10:32 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

i hope hookah doesnt die imo its soo much better then smoking cigs...
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  #4  
Old November 12th, 2007, 11:10 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

It will never die, as long as tobacco remains legal. It may loose some steam, but I don't think its nearly peaked yet.

There are a couple innovation that have happened to make hookahs more convienent. One of which, a convienent tobacco package, hasn't been released yet, but a couple companies (including Hobocans) is looking into it. I think this, paired with improved, easier to use hookah pipes, will force hookah into a more mainstream culture.

One of the shops I talk to in NYC, has recently removed all of their other "tobacco" pipes for exclusively hookahs. This seems to be the trend, and I think it wil be for at least the next couple of years. Hookahs may then peak, but not before there is a substantial enthusiast culture established (much like cigars: the fad faded, but it is still a multi-billion dollar industry).
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Old November 12th, 2007, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Well, here, how about this example.

5 years ago skaters were really chill people with long messy shaggy hair, and there was a ton of them.
Now, skaters are mostly emo-style kids with tight pants, and there are is a smaller amount of total skaters as before.

I think what we know of as hookah will change gradually into something slightly or very much different. Take a look at the Meduse pipes for instance.
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  #6  
Old November 13th, 2007, 12:15 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I'm not a student nor am I retired. In fact, I'm 34 yr old father of 2 who works 2 jobs and I still finds time to smoke daily.In fact, I feel smoking my nargille helps take the edge off my hectic daily life.It may lose it's luster for the many weekend warriors out there, but for those of us who see the narghille as an integral part of our daily lives, it's definetly here to stay! As a mote, narghille has been around alot longer than 12 to fifteen years.
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  #7  
Old November 13th, 2007, 12:42 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu ronin
I'm not a student nor am I retired. In fact, I'm 34 yr old father of 2 who works 2 jobs and I still finds time to smoke daily.In fact, I feel smoking my nargille helps take the edge off my hectic daily life.It may lose it's luster for the many weekend warriors out there, but for those of us who see the narghille as an integral part of our daily lives, it's definetly here to stay! As a mote, narghille has been around alot longer than 12 to fifteen years.
Well I am a bit (o.k., a lot) older then you and I too find my narghiles take the edge off the day and basically make life better. I used to have a family as well and they accepted my hobby even if they didn't have a great love for it.

While the narghile has been around for quite a while it is new in the West but I hope it doesn't turn out to be some passing fad.
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  #8  
Old November 13th, 2007, 12:49 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rayver
I wasn't old enough to remember when cigars were around 12-15 years ago but just curious...was it as common to college students back then as hookah is now?
I'd say not quite but pretty common nonetheless. Cigars succeeded in the early '90s as no longer being associated with old men and a dieing pass time but instead as something hip and trendy with would be yuppie types and real professionals and even normal middle class people. The anti-tobacco lobby and changing trends torpedoed the cigar boom but because it is still an upscale product it is still thriving even the boom days a long gone.
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  #9  
Old November 13th, 2007, 12:55 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobohookah
It will never die, as long as tobacco remains legal. It may loose some steam, but I don't think its nearly peaked yet.

There are a couple innovation that have happened to make hookahs more convienent. One of which, a convienent tobacco package, hasn't been released yet, but a couple companies (including Hobocans) is looking into it. I think this, paired with improved, easier to use hookah pipes, will force hookah into a more mainstream culture.

One of the shops I talk to in NYC, has recently removed all of their other "tobacco" pipes for exclusively hookahs. This seems to be the trend, and I think it wil be for at least the next couple of years. Hookahs may then peak, but not before there is a substantial enthusiast culture established (much like cigars: the fad faded, but it is still a multi-billion dollar industry).
If narghile use is going to go into the mainstream it will have to drift away from college students and go upscale. I've seen the pre-packed disposable shisha products and perhaps something like that will make it more acceptable to people that don't want the fuss of set up and cleaning. Still, coals are a big hassle and I don't see the popularity of narghiles improving dramatically until coals go away as well. If the industry doesn't go beyond it's current base of support (but manages to build the core market up) for a few years before the next trend sets in it is possible that narghiles will be a sucessful niche product like cigars but on a smaller scale.
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  #10  
Old November 13th, 2007, 01:04 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk


I think what we know of as hookah will change gradually into something slightly or very much different. Take a look at the Meduse pipes for instance.
Hopefully devices intended for "something other then tobacco" like the product you mention will not become a major force in the narghile world. Some sort of change like getting rid of coals and the ritual of set up and cleaning should help with greater mainstream interest but as I see things the looks of a well made, elaborate, traditional narghile appeal to all sorts of people that don't share my outlook and interests. Aesthetics is not a problem although it will expand and change obviously although I really think those matters are far less problematic then many others like the labor intensive nature of the hobby.

Of course, ever increasing tax burden on tobacco combined with the inevitable public banishment of smoking is a hell of a burden that I doubt we will be able bear.
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  #11  
Old November 13th, 2007, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

tripple post ftw!

it wont die down, one of the reasons why it got bigger recently was because of the war and when the troops come back some day it will get bigger. think of it maybe like pizza was after WWII, people came back from europe and loved pizza so asked for something to be made and now pizza is a multi-billion dollar industry. pizza in the states and from italy is different entirely in taste so they didnt re-create it and when people want pizza what do they do? they go to a pizza joint or buy an already frozen one and pop it in the oven but they dont make it from scratch very often. hookah will be similar and it will get bigger and people will save the setup by people going to a hookah bar.

atleast thats how i see it
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  #12  
Old November 13th, 2007, 03:23 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I don't think hookah will die out by any means, but i do think that it will lose speed once it reaches it's platue (sp) . That's with everything though.

It doesn't take much time to clean a hookah or set it up, or at least not to me. (Sam can attest to that for me) For me, it's my time to relax , unwind and talk to my fiance about our day. We will watch tv, movies, play games while smoking. It helps us as a couple have "us time".

I see how some people who want instant gratification though will move off of it once people begin to get tired of it, or get bored with it. I think it's kind of sad to see hookah as a fad, but I am also glad that because it's a fad we get people interested in it who will become long time smokers and truely appreciate it.

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  #13  
Old November 13th, 2007, 04:03 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I don't see hookah as dieing off, but perhaps slacking back down to the same level as say 10 years ago.

Many different reasons, most of them have pushed Nargile to the level of "fad" status - when many realize the time and money really spent, it will fade alittle. But you will have the few from before as well as some new "blood" that embrace it - no matter how new age it tries to become. Many people do enjoy the ritual of the set-up - those will be the life blood.

As to the tobacco taxes, bans and such not.... as much as so many people scream bloody murder at it - it hasn't disappeared yet. Tobacco, in one form or another, has been around for a LONG time. It still is a "cash crop". If they were to outlaw tobacco - half of the American Ecomony (more so than it already is, mind you) would collaspe. Alot of money is tied into Tobacco. As such, it won't completely disappear, atleast for a good long time.

When it is no longer a "money making" item or becomes a true "margin loss" comodity, then it will die off.

Think about it this way - more people die each year becasue of Alcholo or alcholo related activies than smoking. Have they outlawed booze yet?
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Old November 13th, 2007, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomhauer
tripple post ftw!

it wont die down, one of the reasons why it got bigger recently was because of the war and when the troops come back some day it will get bigger. think of it maybe like pizza was after WWII, people came back from europe and loved pizza so asked for something to be made and now pizza is a multi-billion dollar industry. pizza in the states and from italy is different entirely in taste so they didnt re-create it and when people want pizza what do they do? they go to a pizza joint or buy an already frozen one and pop it in the oven but they dont make it from scratch very often. hookah will be similar and it will get bigger and people will save the setup by people going to a hookah bar.

atleast thats how i see it
Not sure your comparison is too sound in that pizza existed in the states as far back as the 20s and it got hugely popular after Italian immigration wained and a good deal after WWII so I donít see the connection.

As to Americaís various wars of imperialism helping our hobby I guess I donít know about that either. Given that neither Iraq or Afghanistan have reliable electricity, sewage processing, safe water, a functional economy or even reasonable safety from being dismembered I doubt that narghile use is much of a priority for anyone locally. Besides with something like a quarter of all Iraqis being refugees I doubt that much of a narghile trade exists let alone the opportunity for Americans to learn much about it. Anyone want to lay odds on your chance of getting Al Fakher and 3 King coals outside the ďgreen zoneĒ unless an American mail orders it from here?

Obviously, A bunch of G.I.s will see them and some will try them out but I donít know if that will translate into a huge base of support for us. Back in the Vietnam era narghile like pipes never really made much of an impact although such things are very common in South East Asia I am told.

Still, it would be great if youíre right about this one.
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  #15  
Old November 13th, 2007, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sammniamii
I don't see hookah as dieing off, but perhaps slacking back down to the same level as say 10 years ago.

Many different reasons, most of them have pushed Nargile to the level of "fad" status - when many realize the time and money really spent, it will fade alittle. But you will have the few from before as well as some new "blood" that embrace it - no matter how new age it tries to become. Many people do enjoy the ritual of the set-up - those will be the life blood.

As to the tobacco taxes, bans and such not.... as much as so many people scream bloody murder at it - it hasn't disappeared yet. Tobacco, in one form or another, has been around for a LONG time. It still is a "cash crop". If they were to outlaw tobacco - half of the American Ecomony (more so than it already is, mind you) would collaspe. Alot of money is tied into Tobacco. As such, it won't completely disappear, atleast for a good long time.

When it is no longer a "money making" item or becomes a true "margin loss" comodity, then it will die off.

Think about it this way - more people die each year becasue of Alcholo or alcholo related activies than smoking. Have they outlawed booze yet?
I think I agree with you that those of who donít mind the setup/cleaning/heat management thing will be the ones willing to stay with it. I guess the popularity of the whole shisha thing still has room to grow before it declines but I donít know what the end result will be although I assume it will be at least as big as regular pipe use so I guess things should be better then what my pal predicts.

As to the tax thing I donít think that tobacco will disappear but we all know that the public smoking bans are going to be nearly universal and that it will be a lot more expensive to smoke do to taxes. The anti-tobacco lobby has hurt the economy a lot but in the end they have a lot more political clout then we do and Congress will be more then happy to watch the industry lay offs go through then be seen as an ally of the tobacco industry. Itís funny in that tax revenue from tobacco has been dropping like a rock for decades as a result of the anti-smoking lobby yet the government is would be more likely to build a monument of Saddam Hussein then go back to the tobacco policies of the Ď50s.
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Old November 13th, 2007, 09:32 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobohookah
It will never die, as long as tobacco remains legal. It may loose some steam, but I don't think its nearly peaked yet.

There are a couple innovation that have happened to make hookahs more convienent. One of which, a convienent tobacco package, hasn't been released yet, but a couple companies (including Hobocans) is looking into it. I think this, paired with improved, easier to use hookah pipes, will force hookah into a more mainstream culture.

One of the shops I talk to in NYC, has recently removed all of their other "tobacco" pipes for exclusively hookahs. This seems to be the trend, and I think it wil be for at least the next couple of years. Hookahs may then peak, but not before there is a substantial enthusiast culture established (much like cigars: the fad faded, but it is still a multi-billion dollar industry).
Hey which shop was that? and location ( i live in nyc and shops are rare to find)


But yea Hookah is here to stay..sadly so is the connotation of it being affiliated with drugs will be to. But its a great hobby and it has found its niche
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  #17  
Old November 13th, 2007, 11:08 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I don't think Hookah will disappear.
I agree with KK as it will slow and maybe lose some ground.
As well as someone stated it will change; just like the skate scene. Also to touch up on the skate scene, long boarding is seeing its own influx of emo. Bastards.
Anyway, hookah will just evolve into something better and/or different. On the downside the change can cause it to lose ground.
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  #18  
Old November 14th, 2007, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I don't think the hookah hobby will vanish... I mean, it has been around for like thousands of years right?! If it has lasted this long, then I don't think it's going to vanish all of a sudden now... Most people I know (that smoke hookah) find it relaxing and very effective at taking the stress from the day away. I view it the same way also. It's a way for me to "take a load off" and forget about what stressed me out earlier and what not. Whenever it's not needed for stress relief, it ends up being something fun to do, and something to just hang out with friends and carry conversations. Regardless, because of all these reasons, I don't think it will ever die out.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 12:45 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

As a college student, I realize that more and more people I know are jumping into the hookah tradition. I don't know about other areas of the country, but here it barely starting to bloom. It's great for people between 18 to 20, who have nothing to do because their to young to drink. I don't think it'll disappear, it'll be come a part of a generation and culture of its own. I just wish that it will stop getting bad publicity about being used for illigal substances.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 04:53 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Thikn it's going to go the way of platform shoes and the lava lamp? LoL maybe
What i've noticed is it is kind of outta control. You can get a Hookah almost ANYWHERE in NYC as well as Shisha.
To some, maybe most it is kind of a fad; when that goes a lot of the hookah base establishments might go with it - but not all of them.

People who are ohnestly into hookah - the togetherness it brings, the culture, true loves of their brand of shisha and the people who like the hookah to match them rather then their living room, it'll be so much the better when the crazy dies down a little bit.

In no time at all I have seen some real trendiness - but what can ya do. For not it only stands to help people who have a true intrest. At least for now.

I'm more for waiting it out and seeing how it goes. the Hookahs aren;t going to go anywhere and the Shisha is going to be here to stay.

So let's see what goes on down the road.
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  #21  
Old November 14th, 2007, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I guess that no fad ever goes away but they do fade into the background, burble up and then fadeaway again. Just as an examples: 1) the whole skinhead thing was huge in late 60s, almost vanished in 70s and came back bigger then ever in the early 80s and returned again in the late 90s. 2) In the mid 60s wild garage rock was pretty popular and it died by '68, had a massive come back in the mid 80's and another one in the early 90s. 3) Hot Rod stuff was massively huge in the 50s and early 60s and although it never had a huge come back it has keep a decent sized following ever since.

Narghiles will likely rise in popularity for a couple of more years and then likely sink back to where it was 3 or 4 years back. Tons of people that like it now will give up on it when it's not so hip because most people are sheep. A lot the super heavy users will give up on it as their health wains. But no, I don't see it ending up like lava lamps or 8 track tapes for the simple reason that narghiles offer so much more then those kind of things ever did.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 01:53 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I think it will remain for a while. Once Americans start making cigarettes illegal, then you can start to expect the disappearance of hookahs and shisha. Another trend that does not seem likely to dissipate is the health/ wellness movement. More and more, people are becoming health conscious. This may cause a future drop in the wide-spread use of hookahs, however, I don't foresee anything too dramatic happening in the near near future.
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Old November 14th, 2007, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

The shop in NYC i referenced is The Village Smoke Shop on 6th near 4th st. They own I think 3 shops total in the Soha/West Village area, and when I was in their last their main shop (the one above) was being remodeled.

Its important to notice because the Village Smoke Shop has been around for awhile, and they use to be a big time headshop/tatoo parlor. So they've really changed a bit, due to the demand they see from hookahs.
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Old November 15th, 2007, 08:06 PM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

I'm 32 now and i've been hitting the village since im like 11. Earliest manhattan memories have that place live and kicking all the way back then.
Good point man, that place ain't going no where.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hobohookah
The shop in NYC i referenced is The Village Smoke Shop on 6th near 4th st. They own I think 3 shops total in the Soha/West Village area, and when I was in their last their main shop (the one above) was being remodeled.

Its important to notice because the Village Smoke Shop has been around for awhile, and they use to be a big time headshop/tatoo parlor. So they've really changed a bit, due to the demand they see from hookahs.
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  #25  
Old November 18th, 2007, 11:05 AM
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Default Re: Is our hobby going to vannish?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk
Well, here, how about this example.

5 years ago skaters were really chill people with long messy shaggy hair, and there was a ton of them.
Now, skaters are mostly emo-style kids with tight pants, and there are is a smaller amount of total skaters as before.
skating is as big if not bigger now than it was 5 years ago i dont know what your talking aboot.

hookah will reach a pleatu probably within the next 2 years and then slowly die down and the bigger companies will still be around but i woundt expect to see all the sites i see now about and stuff.
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