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Tar Released During Smoking?

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  #1  
Old August 15th, 2009, 03:41 AM
KarmaHookah
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Default Tar Released During Smoking?

I have a friend who is in medical school, and he was at my house today when I had a bowl of some AF going and he kept rambling on about how bad shisha is for you.

I told him that it has almost 0% tar, but he said that the tar is not released until you light the tobacco, and the amount of tar is higher than that in cigars and cigarettes?

So are his claims true? I had no idea.
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  #2  
Old August 15th, 2009, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

So far as I've been able to gather: Yes, no, no.

Tar is a byproduct of plant matter combusting. It is not present in tobacco or any other plant matter until it is burnt. Thus being said, you're talking about a much lower, slower rate of combustion. A cigarette's cherry can get up to almost 1300 degrees farenheit when drawing... Way hotter than the tobacco in your hookah will ever reasonably get (if I remember right, the temperature inside the hookah bowl is only a few hundred degrees... anyone have data on this?)

World Health Organization published a bullshit study a few years ago about the dangers of hookah, but they did not use properly tended coals or tobacco.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
The health risks associated with hookah usage are still relatively unstudied when compared to those of cigarettes or other means of tobacco consumption.[citation needed] A common belief among younger users is that the smoke is significantly less dangerous than that from cigarettes.[citation needed] The water moisture induced by the hookah makes the smoke less irritating and may give a false sense of security and reduce concerns about true health effects.[19] Doctors at institutions including the Mayo Clinic have stated that use of hookah can be as detrimental to a person's health as smoking cigarettes,[20][21] and a controversial (see below) study by the World Health Organization also confirmed these findings.[22]
Each hookah session typically lasts more than 40 minutes, and consists of 50 to 200 inhalations that each range from 0.15 to 0.50 liters of smoke.[23][24]
Research shows that a single 45-minute session of hookah tobacco smoking (tobacco molasses) delivers slightly less tar and carbon monoxide (around 3-6%) than smoking a cigar.[25]
The water used in the hookah bowl is often thought to have some filtering function as well as cooling and humidification of the smoke product. The water does clearly collect material from the smoke as it takes on a smell and residue may be visible after extended use without changing, however, whether this function has any health benefits is unclear.
The first[citation needed] aetiologic study on hookah smoking and cancer was published in May 2008. The authors find various levels of carcinogenicity in hookah usage (remarkably lower than in cigarette use). [26]

2005 World Health Organization report

In 2005, the World Health Organization published a report regarding the use of water pipes that noted the dangers of hookah usage. One year later, this document was criticized in the Journal of Negative Results in Biomedicine for what researchers claimed to be errors and misinterpretations in the original report. The WHO report findings were contested regarding its results in pertaining to the following aspects of hookah usage:
[LIST][*]biomedical (chemistry of smoke, health effects)[*]sociological (women and children use)[*]anthropological (Middle East, Asia, Africa, use in a real environment, types of smoking mixtures and pipes, and the consequences of modeling a complex social and human situation)[*]historical (about the origins of the device, since the first two sentences of the WHO report are inaccurate in this respect).[/LIST] The report has also been criticized for publication bias.[citation needed]
It should be noted that the WHO report is not a study per se but only a summary of studies selected by its authors for the purpose of issuing recommendations aiming at supporting national bans on.
Criticism of the report: http://www.jnrbm.com/content/5/1/17
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  #3  
Old August 15th, 2009, 01:20 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

I face this daily with my friends who are in the medial school, I don't know why they always try to pretend that they know everything.
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  #4  
Old August 15th, 2009, 01:48 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

I think we can all agree that hookah isn't the healthiest thing.

What irks me is that these people are willing to turn a blind eye to chemical additives in food.... Look up what High fructose corn syrup does to your body. It's at least as bad as tobacco, will they try to ban it in public or impose high taxes on it's sale? Of course not, that would hurt our glorious corn industry and give money to those vile, sugar-growing commies! The double standard is ridiculous. There is so much shit in our food (at least here in the USA) that we shouldn't even eat, but they'll turn a blind eye to it, then stomp all over someone else for enjoying something potentially harmful.

That said, I enjoy a soda now and then. I know the acids and sweeteners are bad for me, but I understand that downside and treat myself. Because I enjoy it. Besides, somethings gotta kill me some day.
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  #5  
Old August 15th, 2009, 01:52 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Well imo i think hookah is superbad for you when you smoke it everyday and more than 1 time a day. Usually I smoke 2wice a week or 2 bowls in a day.
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  #6  
Old August 15th, 2009, 02:31 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

It only makes sense that hookah is better for you than almost any other type of smoking. The shisha is coated in glycerine, this protects the tobacco from releasing too much tar, and it produces smoke, a common misconception is that the burning tobacco itself produces smoke, like in ciggs or cigars. Yes, some of the tobacco is burned, hence the nicotine buzz, but it is not incinerated to an ash releasing 100% of its carcinogens and tar. Also, the smoke is much much cooler. One of the probelms with other forms of smoking is that the temperature of the smoke irritates the lungs, with hookah, smoke is usually under room temperature, this is easy on the lungs, and it will deposit less tar into your lungs because the particles are moving slower. Not to mention that the smoke goes through the water in the vase. While some people may argue this, it does filter the smoke to an extent. If you smell your water, you can smell the shisha in it because of the smoke passing through it. And with a phunnel or vortex, you can eliminate the possibility of juices going down the stem and into the water. The water also cools the smoke.

The only good argument i can find against hookah is the CO content. And this can be significantly reduced by using nicer coals (coconut natural coals release the least amount of CO). And by lighting the coals in a different room, or outside, and by making sure that they are completely lit and ashed over before using.

But, if someone were to test hookah, using a barely lit quicklight coal, an overpacked bowl, warm water, and constant dragging from a device like a vacuum. You are going to get test results that are bad. It will show excess amounts of CO, it will show hot harsh smoke, it will release more tar and carcinogens......but who smokes their hookah like that?

Last edited by Coldgr33ntea; August 15th, 2009 at 02:37 PM.
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  #7  
Old August 15th, 2009, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldgr33ntea View Post
I

But, if someone were to test hookah, using a barely lit quicklight coal, an overpacked bowl, warm water, and constant dragging from a device like a vacuum. You are going to get test results that are bad. It will show excess amounts of CO, it will show hot harsh smoke, it will release more tar and carcinogens......but who smokes their hookah like that?
That's basically the problem with the WHO report.
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  #8  
Old August 15th, 2009, 04:40 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Anybody who believes hookahs are more dangerous than the equivalent in cigarettes/cigars/traditional pipes probably doesn't know much about them. Anybody who believes hookahs are healthy probably doesn't know much about them.

The fact is smoking a hookah can carry significant risk which varies with how it is smoked. Even the glycerol that everyone points to as a reason for it being healthier is dangerous if overheated (acrolein is not friendly stuff). Unfortunately as pointed out above, there is a lack of unbiased accurate studies done on hookahs as smoked by humans (I wonder if monkeys would smoke them the same...hmmm...).

It's your body, do what you will with it, especially in a time where everything is a health risk to you, even water and sunlight.
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  #9  
Old August 15th, 2009, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foibled View Post
(I wonder if monkeys would smoke them the same...hmmm...).

It's your body, do what you will with it, especially in a time where everything is a health risk to you, even water and sunlight.

according to california every thing causes cancer and seeing a monkey smoking hookah would be one of the coolest things i would ever see. part of me wants to set that up some how
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  #10  
Old August 16th, 2009, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROG View Post
... seeing a monkey smoking hookah would be one of the coolest things i would ever see. part of me wants to set that up some how
Word. To the zoo!
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  #11  
Old August 16th, 2009, 02:03 AM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

I am wondering how many chemicals are in cigarettes and in hookah tobacco, I know cigarettes have way too added many chemicals.
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  #12  
Old August 16th, 2009, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Well no doubt inhaling any kind of smoke just isn't good for the body. I'm curious as to how many cancer cases they have over in the middle east/asia where the shisha has been around for hundreds of years.
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  #13  
Old August 16th, 2009, 05:15 AM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

for tar to produce from burning tobacco it needs to burn at tempretures of over 800*c (like cigarettes), the heighest shisha burns to is 300-350*c
therrfore no tar.
gg.
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  #14  
Old August 16th, 2009, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cademars View Post
Well no doubt inhaling any kind of smoke just isn't good for the body. I'm curious as to how many cancer cases they have over in the middle east/asia where the shisha has been around for hundreds of years.
I saw an article a while back that said that cancer rates, lung cancer especially, are much lower in these regions than they are in say the more "civilized" (sarcastically stated) areas of the world.

Now if I can find it again I'll post the article.
__________________


At my age being cynical and sarcastic is just making small talk.
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  #15  
Old August 16th, 2009, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko View Post
for tar to produce from burning tobacco it needs to burn at tempretures of over 800*c (like cigarettes), the heighest shisha burns to is 300-350*c
therrfore no tar.
gg.
This would be fantastic. What is the source you got that number from though? (800c) I can't find any number quoted for tar release temperature on google.
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  #16  
Old August 16th, 2009, 08:05 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

im going to print out this thread...and post it to all the people who have never smoked hookah that criticize it...

fact of the matter is.. if the world ends in 2012 or 2011 like the aztec calender states it as im going to spend my time enjoying a bowl or two a day when i feel like it.. i did a small 3 week project where i smoked 2 bowls of hookah a night for a week straight and that sunday i didnt smoke anything and went for a mile run and did 50 timed pushups.. next i went 2 weeks without smoking at all and that second sunday i did the same test.. heres my results

after week 1 (on hookah) : 7:20 mile 50 pushups in 35 seconds
after week 3 (no hookah or tobacco of any kind for previous 2 weeks): 7:15 mile 50 pushups 33 seconds.

its not much of a scientific study but im going to put it out there for those who are interested
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  #17  
Old August 16th, 2009, 08:22 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

all im going to say is that if u are really worried about lung cancer and all those other lung problems smoking then dont smoke at all cuz its the smoke that gives u cancer not tar not nicotine its SMOKE!
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  #18  
Old August 16th, 2009, 08:46 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thaidude View Post
all im going to say is that if u are really worried about lung cancer and all those other lung problems smoking then dont smoke at all cuz its the smoke that gives u cancer not tar not nicotine its SMOKE!
lol....aspartame also gives you cancer... and sun.. and water..and scientology.. the list goes on... just found this.. you guys might be interested in it

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...824810,00.html
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  #19  
Old August 16th, 2009, 09:59 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

haha great find
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  #20  
Old August 16th, 2009, 10:26 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thaidude View Post
all im going to say is that if u are really worried about lung cancer and all those other lung problems smoking then dont smoke at all cuz its the smoke that gives u cancer not tar not nicotine its SMOKE!
You know how people used to just die for no reason, or of 'old age?'

Turns out, all that was cancer. Cancer has been killing living things for thousands of years and it's not going to stop.

I'd rather smoke a bowl than spend even just 15 seconds in a tanning bed.
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  #21  
Old August 16th, 2009, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Well amongst all this fear of tar, cancer and what not...here is a story that will give someone a little smile. My fathers' uncle was diagnosed with cancer a while back. The doctors told him to quit smoking right away and start chemo. He said the hell with that cause he wasn't gonna go through puttin poison in his system to kill the cancer. So he said I'm just going to live my life till the end comes...so he continued smoking and denied treatment. He lived close to another 7 years...true story!
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  #22  
Old August 17th, 2009, 01:52 PM
Fidelis Mortuus
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

ya never know when lifes gonna end.. its inevitable. we are all mortal. so lets smoke a bowl and say cheers to life while we are still alive.. live, smoke be happy. because you never know when you will meet an a teen driver.

cheers
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  #23  
Old August 17th, 2009, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KarmaHookah View Post
I have a friend who is in medical school, and he was at my house today when I had a bowl of some AF going and he kept rambling on about how bad shisha is for you.

I told him that it has almost 0% tar, but he said that the tar is not released until you light the tobacco, and the amount of tar is higher than that in cigars and cigarettes?

So are his claims true? I had no idea.
Basically the claim about tar is BS if you actually know how to manage your coals. If the tobacco doesn't literally burn you'll have extremely low to no tar. According to my last medical exam I don't have any noticeable levels of nicotine or tar and my cardio-vascular condition is perfect for someone of my age.
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  #24  
Old August 17th, 2009, 09:19 PM
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Default Re: Tar Released During Smoking?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
Basically the claim about tar is BS if you actually know how to manage your coals. If the tobacco doesn't literally burn you'll have extremely low to no tar. According to my last medical exam I don't have any noticeable levels of nicotine or tar and my cardio-vascular condition is perfect for someone of my age.
i havnt had a medical exam since iv started smoking hookah but ive heard many cases such as yours...many
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