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Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

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  #1  
Old August 17th, 2009, 04:48 PM
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Default Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Ok so i just have to rant about this. first off just need to put out there that i am studying metal working and glass blowing for my degree so i might be a bit more critical than others but here we go.

these rigs we buy from egypt come to us supposedly as "great hand made pieces" yet there are pieces that are unfinished and uneven, i understand the "mark of the hand" but a lot of these issues are not just how hand made things are they are lazy. we accept dings and crappy blends and bad corrosion on a new rig as ok because they come from a "3rd world country" as i have heard the excuse.

now about the glass... wow, horrid. first off the glass is uneven thickness and honestly blowing even glass is not hard to do after very little practice. next thing, the glass is horribly seedy (i.e. air bubbles all over) which is just a sign of being lazy or not knowing what you are doing, it happens because the glass is not left to sit long enough after charging (or loading the raw materials or recycled glass in to the furnace and melting it), i have also noticed what looks to be strings of bubbles due to reusing a blow pipe with cold glass (cold being relative) on the end which traps bubbles and by allowing that glass to become part of the piece adding air bubbles to the pice.

next issue i noticed with the glass is that fact that it is annealed to fast or taken out of an annealer at to high of a temperature. when you make a piece of glass it must be slowly cooled down from about 1000* F over at least 12 hours if not more for thicker pieces (example, lenses for big telescopes at observatories have to be cooled for 9 months at least). this is the reason we get bases with stress fractures in them and the reason that putting damn ice in a base or slight temperature changes cause people to shatter their bases


maybe i am just to picky or maybe because i work with these materials that i expect a better product but this just pisses me off that we as consumers have to deal with this because it is just accepted by the industry

-matt
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  #2  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

GREAT post man. This is why I like the AF Syrian rigs. As far as the glass goes though, it's probably not the best. But I have come to the point where every Egyptian I buy i end up disappointed with for a quality problem.

I would also have to say... if Mya's weren't common chamber, they would be the best quality hookah on the market in my opinion.
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  #3  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:11 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I agree, some of the stems I've seen have crappy, basically unfinished welds and bases that look like a 2nd grader finger painted the design. Hopefully Egyptian hookah manufacturers read this post and step up there game.

Stop trying to mass produce and build them with quality.
Quality > Quantity
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  #4  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:16 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

The Egyptian hookah manufacturers could care less what you think Matt, and I agree with you. From my many ongoing conversations with the importers the manufacturers really just care about money and will tell you what you want to hear in order to buy then leaving you feel the way you do.
You should send your post to Khalil Mamoon, Magdy Zidan, Temsah, or any other manufacturer, and see if you get a response. My guess will be no.

Now on the Syrian hookah issue, I do think the outer stems look great but many models are not so great when you examine the inner working. The AF ones are really good and solid but with Syrian hookahs it's a bit hit and miss. If you hit consider yourself lucky.
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  #5  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Basically what has happened is that since narghile stuff has become so trendy in the West the Egyptian makers have often tossed quality out the window in order to keep up with demand. Naturally the better brands like El Ashrey, KM, MZ & Shisha King do a better job then the generic shops most of the time but the fact is that you can't sell millions of anything that is handmade and get great craftsmanship.

Personally I prefer Syrian rigs but in the end i'd say don't buy anything you can't inspect personally before hand.
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Old August 17th, 2009, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post

I would also have to say... if Mya's weren't common chamber, they would be the best quality hookah on the market in my opinion.
Yep me too thats why i keep buying them over another KM, purging is the only issue i have with my myas now, the rest smoke perfectly

Great post BTW, i dont really understand bout the stem work, etc but mine seems good to me, but im not a expert by any means

Last edited by patelbadboy2006; August 17th, 2009 at 06:50 PM.
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  #7  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:46 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

ya i honestly know the producers care nothing and while i do plan to make my own rig from scratch and make it very legit i know if i were to sell it i would have to charge over $1000 usd. the glass would have to cost 50 bare minimium if not closer to 100 and the metal workings would take so much time to really have to charge in the 100s easily

-matt
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  #8  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:48 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by patelbadboy2006 View Post
Yep me too thats why i keep buying them over another KM, purging is the only issue i have with my myas now, the rest smoke perfectly

Great post BTW, i dont really understnad bout the tem work, etc but mine seems good to me, but im not a expert by any means
posted same time i did,

ya i like myas too but the rough inside pisses me off and how they have a few points that choke out the flow but over all i like the looks, i like the base shapes over all, and they seem more stable.

i guess at this point im just to stuck up now to accept any rig as good enough

-matt
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  #9  
Old August 17th, 2009, 05:54 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
ya i honestly know the producers care nothing and while i do plan to make my own rig from scratch and make it very legit i know if i were to sell it i would have to charge over $1000 usd. the glass would have to cost 50 bare minimium if not closer to 100 and the metal workings would take so much time to really have to charge in the 100s easily

-matt
i'm glad you brought that up. think about it, if they were perfect and hand made each one would take days to make and the costs would be astronomical.
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  #10  
Old August 17th, 2009, 06:05 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I agree 100% with both you Matt, and John. Firstly, sometimes the quality is utter crap but yada ya it's all part of that handcrafted charm. The thing is like Matt says, try getting the materials and paying someone to make it, then sell it on, yourself making money with it eventually getting to the states selling for $99. The way I figure it, a lot of people make money from every hookah. The craftsman, the manufacturer, the exporter, the shipping agent, the importer / wholesaler, the reseller. Everyone wants their own slice of the pie and the demand is so huge that to keep them handmade, then quality has to be reduced to keep the costs low enough to shift them in the numbers they do!

Be realistic, if each (for example) KM or Nour cost you $600 each, how many of you would have one, let alone half a dozen?
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  #11  
Old August 17th, 2009, 06:07 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Hell, I'm just happy mine works, and works well, hah. Though if I had the money, I (as well as everyone else here, I'm sure) would totally buy a custom, handmade, perfect hookah. By the way, I hear the mega millions jackpot here in the states is like, 171 million for this part of the week....
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  #12  
Old August 17th, 2009, 06:09 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I guess the Mya Bambino would in theory and design be the best hookah available on the market.
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  #13  
Old August 17th, 2009, 06:12 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

The thing is, lots of them are crappy. But the people who make those hookahs and those companies are not very interested in your satisfaction. Why? because they know that it wont ever get back to them. That is something that the vendors handle. So they can make bad welds, bubbles in the glass, and crap products overall, but we still pay it, and they get paid. The only way to change this would be to contact the people who make them.

This is why coal companies like exotica changed their quality control, because there were random pieces of stuff in it, then consumers (like me) complained to them. This resulted in a change of manufacturing, which not only shows care for their product, but care for their customers. This is why i still buy exoticas, even though coconaras smoke better imo.
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  #14  
Old August 17th, 2009, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

This makes me wonder about those super expensive hookah companies. like Meduse and such. Maybe they noticed this too, and decided to make something very superior to normal hookahs, yes, the price is up there, but they might be the best that you can get.
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  #15  
Old August 17th, 2009, 06:18 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldgr33ntea View Post
The thing is, lots of them are crappy. But the people who make those hookahs and those companies are not very interested in your satisfaction. Why? because they know that it wont ever get back to them. That is something that the vendors handle. So they can make bad welds, bubbles in the glass, and crap products overall, but we still pay it, and they get paid. The only way to change this would be to contact the people who make them.

This is why coal companies like exotica changed their quality control, because there were random pieces of stuff in it, then consumers (like me) complained to them. This resulted in a change of manufacturing, which not only shows care for their product, but care for their customers. This is why i still buy exoticas, even though coconaras smoke better imo.
But Exoticas got worse and he came on this forum and told us we were stupid and using them wrong and it was a conspiracy. Then he said they were better- and then coconara came out and screwed him out of business because his coals were so crappy. Yet people still buy those things... Perfect example of the consumer keeping a shitty retailer in business.
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  #16  
Old August 17th, 2009, 06:26 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I would probably have just one KM at this point if they prices were that way.

Also coming from the automotive industry, i could get a custom CNC'd machine solid billet stem pretty cheap (plan to later) made, glass is another story however. The glass is another story.
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  #17  
Old August 17th, 2009, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

For me I dont car how a hookah looks. I just care how it smokes.
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  #18  
Old August 17th, 2009, 09:14 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

All my syrian hookahs are < my KM egyptians in quality with the exception of the AF.
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  #19  
Old August 17th, 2009, 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ************* View Post
The Egyptian hookah manufacturers could care less what you think Matt, and I agree with you. From my many ongoing conversations with the importers the manufacturers really just care about money and will tell you what you want to hear in order to buy then leaving you feel the way you do.
You should send your post to Khalil Mamoon, Magdy Zidan, Temsah, or any other manufacturer, and see if you get a response. My guess will be no.

Now on the Syrian hookah issue, I do think the outer stems look great but many models are not so great when you examine the inner working. The AF ones are really good and solid but with Syrian hookahs it's a bit hit and miss. If you hit consider yourself lucky.
My thought's on trendy Egyptian shishas are well known. I just want to send John a shout out for having the grapes to call a spade a spade. It's a rare bit of honesty, and even rarer coming from a vendor!
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  #20  
Old August 17th, 2009, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by patelbadboy2006 View Post
Yep me too thats why i keep buying them over another KM, purging is the only issue i have with my myas now, the rest smoke perfectly

Great post BTW, i dont really understand bout the stem work, etc but mine seems good to me, but im not a expert by any means

yh im on the mya bandwagon, aswell, i mean real top notch quality, i use mine constantly.
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  #21  
Old August 17th, 2009, 11:03 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggsy View Post
For me I dont car how a hookah looks. I just care how it smokes.
^^that. I love how my KM looks, but I care more about how it smokes and that it'll withstand years of normal use.
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  #22  
Old August 17th, 2009, 11:39 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ************* View Post
i'm glad you brought that up. think about it, if they were perfect and hand made each one would take days to make and the costs would be astronomical.
see john i dont think it would be that much more for a lot of the issues to be fixed, the metal work issue could be fixed for probably well under 50% more work, i would go as far to say that honestly probably 10-20% more work tops. and for the glass it would only take a bit longer to charge the glass furnace or even as simple as adjusting the program ran during the charging process, as an example one of the large glass batch/cullet (the 2 forms of raw glass, first being raw materials, second being chunks of premelted glass) specify that if you just let the glass go down to 1900-2000 *f for an hour or 2 at the end of the charging process it will reduce most of the seeds (small bubbles). which honestly is not much more time lost in the long run since you basically give up a day to charge (depending on the size of the furnace).

i honestly would expect that the end cost would be pretty close to the same for a major jump in quality. seeing as the rigs over there are costing in the 20-40 USD range i would expect the extra quality to push the price up maybe to 25-45 USD so even if it gets marked up a lot we are looking at maybe 25 bucks more per rig.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldgr33ntea View Post
This makes me wonder about those super expensive hookah companies. like Meduse and such. Maybe they noticed this too, and decided to make something very superior to normal hookahs, yes, the price is up there, but they might be the best that you can get.
i think that is probably correct, from looking at the pics of those rigs the glass looks very very nice and IIRC they are hand blown


i had jokingly said i might start making hookahs but i am really thinking about it now, just not sure what the end cost could be cut down to being made in the states

-matt
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  #23  
Old August 18th, 2009, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

asdfadsfasdfasf

Last edited by Str0mz0r; December 1st, 2014 at 05:05 PM.
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  #24  
Old August 18th, 2009, 09:06 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I agree with a lot of things said in this post. Yes, the costs would get up a little. It does suck that hookah manufacturers are giving us these bunk quality rigs, but we still snatch them up. I mean, I have a Double Pear KM and some of the welds are just atrocious. I mean, the thing smokes just great, but I think I'll go for the AF next time and enjoy the power of Syrian brass... make no mistake, KM is great. I really wish someone could get a hold of the KM manufacturing and give them Matt's post. Maybe we would get a small bump in quality...
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  #25  
Old August 18th, 2009, 09:16 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I agree entirely with this post, mass production leads to lower quality in stems and glass.

Most of my Syrians > My Egyptians, which I know is the exact opposite of Bradedup's experiences, and if you look at our reviews, we are being honest about what we both got.

I understand there are bad Syrians out there, trust me, I'm just glad someone is pointing out egyptians, and this does not save km from this, are in the same boat.
crap is crap, and lots of it makes it here.
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