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Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

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  #26  
Old August 18th, 2009, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

All in all, my km kafae is a decent quality all round. Just the glass that's crappy. Maybe because it's brass? :-)
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  #27  
Old August 18th, 2009, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by photolinger View Post
I agree entirely with this post, mass production leads to lower quality in stems and glass.

Most of my Syrians > My Egyptians, which I know is the exact opposite of Bradedup's experiences, and if you look at our reviews, we are being honest about what we both got.

I understand there are bad Syrians out there, trust me, I'm just glad someone is pointing out egyptians, and this does not save km from this, are in the same boat.
crap is crap, and lots of it makes it here.
I know you have a KM but prefer your syrian but have you compared it to a KM Tri-Metal? I would recommend that you do make this comparison before saying that Syrians are better especially if you can sample the new Al-Zia (I think its called Amerikana on CH). Trust me ive got one and a Solid Nour Syrian which is beautiful but the quality of the KM Al Zia, the design, the way it smokes and its AS hose is so good that at times i forget i even had a Nour Syrian.

As we would say in England; its the dogs bollocks.
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  #28  
Old August 18th, 2009, 10:35 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Welcome to the real world is all I can say as South Africa is considered as the Junk Yard for the rest of the world (Ohhh we made a product and it is cr@p what should we do with it hmmm send it to South Africa and sell it at a massive profit that would work) Yes America and the rest of the world is guilty of the same trespass.

Here Syrian Brass, Egyptian Hookahs, or Mya's are all non existant we only get the cheap Chinese knockoff's due to trade agreements ect. A lot of the Tobaccos you are raving about does not get imported here and the same goes for Natural coals.

The killer for the above is the Rand/$ exchange rate. (about R8.00 to the dollor and nearly R20.00 to the pound)

As to the quality of the knockoffs the bases are sturdy and strong have yet to have one break have dropped one about 5 feet onto a Tiled floor it just bounced no bubbles thick glass all round and no lopsidedness (machine made not hand made in China) The paint may peel but the base will survive. The one generic I have is made off brass pressings with a 10mm brass tubing core no problems with it smokes well and purges very easily traditional chamber. The other is a different story the heart is made of steel pressings and has a common chamber which loves to rust like nobody's bussiness the rest of the hookah is aluminim and works well all machine made.

Yes I agree with you matt that as soon as production on any Item is stepped up a notch due to higher demand the first thing that falls by the wayside is quality and the easiest way to fix that is to introduce a machine to ease some of the workload then the Handmade lable does not fit anymore. Which brings up the question as to the laser etching on the syrians which is done with a lasercutter which is controlled by PLC's and a computer does the handmade lable still apply??

Why not have machine made hookah's assembled by hand which would give better quality and a larger quantity.

Mat if you want to go into the hookah manufacturing bussiness make a patern of the stem sans purgevalve and hoseport and have blanks cast in brass then just machine and add the last pasts do some laser etching and wow a syrian is born. Or you can get a decent CNC machine and machine the stems from brass billets but that would waste a lot of brass.

Just my few cents worth
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  #29  
Old August 18th, 2009, 11:52 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

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Originally Posted by glostersa View Post
Welcome to the real world is all I can say as South Africa is considered as the Junk Yard for the rest of the world (Ohhh we made a product and it is cr@p what should we do with it hmmm send it to South Africa and sell it at a massive profit that would work) Yes America and the rest of the world is guilty of the same trespass.

Here Syrian Brass, Egyptian Hookahs, or Mya's are all non existant we only get the cheap Chinese knockoff's due to trade agreements ect. A lot of the Tobaccos you are raving about does not get imported here and the same goes for Natural coals.

The killer for the above is the Rand/$ exchange rate. (about R8.00 to the dollor and nearly R20.00 to the pound)

As to the quality of the knockoffs the bases are sturdy and strong have yet to have one break have dropped one about 5 feet onto a Tiled floor it just bounced no bubbles thick glass all round and no lopsidedness (machine made not hand made in China) The paint may peel but the base will survive. The one generic I have is made off brass pressings with a 10mm brass tubing core no problems with it smokes well and purges very easily traditional chamber. The other is a different story the heart is made of steel pressings and has a common chamber which loves to rust like nobody's bussiness the rest of the hookah is aluminim and works well all machine made.

Yes I agree with you matt that as soon as production on any Item is stepped up a notch due to higher demand the first thing that falls by the wayside is quality and the easiest way to fix that is to introduce a machine to ease some of the workload then the Handmade lable does not fit anymore. Which brings up the question as to the laser etching on the syrians which is done with a lasercutter which is controlled by PLC's and a computer does the handmade lable still apply??

Why not have machine made hookah's assembled by hand which would give better quality and a larger quantity.

Mat if you want to go into the hookah manufacturing bussiness make a patern of the stem sans purgevalve and hoseport and have blanks cast in brass then just machine and add the last pasts do some laser etching and wow a syrian is born. Or you can get a decent CNC machine and machine the stems from brass billets but that would waste a lot of brass.

Just my few cents worth
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  #30  
Old August 18th, 2009, 12:59 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by glostersa View Post
Welcome to the real world is all I can say as South Africa is considered as the Junk Yard for the rest of the world (Ohhh we made a product and it is cr@p what should we do with it hmmm send it to South Africa and sell it at a massive profit that would work) Yes America and the rest of the world is guilty of the same trespass.

Here Syrian Brass, Egyptian Hookahs, or Mya's are all non existant we only get the cheap Chinese knockoff's due to trade agreements ect. A lot of the Tobaccos you are raving about does not get imported here and the same goes for Natural coals.

The killer for the above is the Rand/$ exchange rate. (about R8.00 to the dollor and nearly R20.00 to the pound)

As to the quality of the knockoffs the bases are sturdy and strong have yet to have one break have dropped one about 5 feet onto a Tiled floor it just bounced no bubbles thick glass all round and no lopsidedness (machine made not hand made in China) The paint may peel but the base will survive. The one generic I have is made off brass pressings with a 10mm brass tubing core no problems with it smokes well and purges very easily traditional chamber. The other is a different story the heart is made of steel pressings and has a common chamber which loves to rust like nobody's bussiness the rest of the hookah is aluminim and works well all machine made.

Yes I agree with you matt that as soon as production on any Item is stepped up a notch due to higher demand the first thing that falls by the wayside is quality and the easiest way to fix that is to introduce a machine to ease some of the workload then the Handmade lable does not fit anymore. Which brings up the question as to the laser etching on the syrians which is done with a lasercutter which is controlled by PLC's and a computer does the handmade lable still apply??

Why not have machine made hookah's assembled by hand which would give better quality and a larger quantity.

Mat if you want to go into the hookah manufacturing bussiness make a patern of the stem sans purgevalve and hoseport and have blanks cast in brass then just machine and add the last pasts do some laser etching and wow a syrian is born. Or you can get a decent CNC machine and machine the stems from brass billets but that would waste a lot of brass.

Just my few cents worth
Lets be serious for a second, shall we? How much does someone think an American (or even Mexican) manufactured hookah would cost compared what is imported from overseas? I know someone who is speccing it out and costs would be upward over over $100 (and thats just the shank, kids). Pass this once around a distributor and then a retailer, and you're looking at over $200 to people like us. If there was a top quality North American manufactured pipe (solid brass), would you pay around $250+ with hose and jar? People here talk big, but when its time to throw the money down.....*crickets*
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  #31  
Old August 18th, 2009, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

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Originally Posted by kingboyb View Post
Lets be serious for a second, shall we? How much does someone think an American (or even Mexican) manufactured hookah would cost compared what is imported from overseas? I know someone who is speccing it out and costs would be upward over over $100 (and thats just the shank, kids). Pass this once around a distributor and then a retailer, and you're looking at over $200 to people like us. If there was a top quality North American manufactured pipe (solid brass), would you pay around $250+ with hose and jar? People here talk big, but when its time to throw the money down.....*crickets*
i honestly think that when people compared the rigs side to side that a lot of people here would pay the extra for it, i know many wouldnt but i think there would be a market for it if the price could be kept down (i.e. not 500 bucks)

-matt
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  #32  
Old August 18th, 2009, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Well,
the truth is like every country in the world, there are good manufacturers and then there are the rest.
About the vases many of them are not blown in Egypt but in other Northern European countries.
Actually let me blow this myth out of the forum.
Egyptian hookahs are not 100% Egyptian, different components are made in different countries, metals are brought in from different countries.
Looking down on third world countries, sounds like snobbery. If people didn't buy the hookahs they wouldn't make them, so they can't be all that bad. Many little shops or independent artisan's make KM's and sell them as KM's and they are not.
You have to know your product, therefore you have to buy from a reputable vendor who specializes in that vein of product and yes dare I say it, not from eBay.I just bought Lancome off eBay. Guess what? It wasn't. So it's not third world country doom, it's third world country charm. Personally I would rather live in a third world country, even though I haven't.
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  #33  
Old August 18th, 2009, 03:14 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

As for me, i wouldn't really care if the semi crappy quality only affected looks, as long as it smokes well, but with my two KM's, thats not the case. With my first one, I had to file down a terrible lip on the hose port, so the grommet could fit in properly without leaking like crazy. And the hose on that one? Leaked like crazy, and i had to basically take it apart, and seal it with hot glue. My next KM, same problem with the hose port, and a crappy weld on the stem gave out, and now the whole stem can twist rather freely. Unfortunately, these were purchased from a shop, and the owners don't really care about my problems.
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  #34  
Old August 18th, 2009, 04:32 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

honestly It doesn't have a huge impact if your hookahs welds are sloppy as long as they are air tight, On things like cars it makes a big diff because of the stress they go through, but with their only perpose being making your hookah air tight its not a big deal... As far as the glass It ussualy only breaks when you drop it or give it thermal shock... Both which even quality glass have issues with, So if you take care of your stuff you shouldn't have to replace the base, but even if you do it ussualy cost around $20-30... with my hookahs it ussualy comes down to the materials you don't want your hookah to rust on you which is why I supose brass it one of the nicest, but the chance of having a weld go on you is slim to none...
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  #35  
Old August 18th, 2009, 04:46 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I'll jump on my hookah project soon...
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  #36  
Old August 18th, 2009, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbyerspace View Post
honestly It doesn't have a huge impact if your hookahs welds are sloppy as long as they are air tight, On things like cars it makes a big diff because of the stress they go through, but with their only perpose being making your hookah air tight its not a big deal... As far as the glass It ussualy only breaks when you drop it or give it thermal shock... Both which even quality glass have issues with, So if you take care of your stuff you shouldn't have to replace the base, but even if you do it ussualy cost around $20-30... with my hookahs it ussualy comes down to the materials you don't want your hookah to rust on you which is why I supose brass it one of the nicest, but the chance of having a weld go on you is slim to none...
i would argue it doesnt impact the rig. messy welds are a sign of either in experience of the person making them or the person not caring which probably means they dont care about the strength, also sloppy welds can allow for more corrosion at those points and/or trap things in the weld that will allow it to break down. as to high quality glass breaking with the same treatment, only if it is more extream. you should not be able to crack glass by thermally shocking it only less than 100* F, most glass should take that easily, where as we are having people who are cracking vases from putting to cold of water in them. as to dropping it and shattering it, only if there was stress built up in the glass from improper annealing will it break easily, look at how hard you can drop a glass out of the cupboard and it not shatter. (also perfect glass would be stronger than steel how ever we cannot have perfect glass, how ever the better the glass is treated throughout working it, which takes little more effort, you can gain very very strong glass)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebaygirl View Post
Well,
the truth is like every country in the world, there are good manufacturers and then there are the rest.
About the vases many of them are not blown in Egypt but in other Northern European countries.
Actually let me blow this myth out of the forum.
Egyptian hookahs are not 100% Egyptian, different components are made in different countries, metals are brought in from different countries.
Looking down on third world countries, sounds like snobbery. If people didn't buy the hookahs they wouldn't make them, so they can't be all that bad. Many little shops or independent artisan's make KM's and sell them as KM's and they are not.
You have to know your product, therefore you have to buy from a reputable vendor who specializes in that vein of product and yes dare I say it, not from eBay.I just bought Lancome off eBay. Guess what? It wasn't. So it's not third world country doom, it's third world country charm. Personally I would rather live in a third world country, even though I haven't.
i would be rather surprised with there being a lot of glass coming from northern europe of such poor quality since so many of those countries are known for high quality glass (i.e. denmark, czech republic both have high quality glass over all). granted any one can product such a crappy product but between the color (over tone) of the glass and the issues with this glass i find it hard to believe it came from northern europe. most glass that is used by production shops have a slight green tint where as this glass has a more amber yellow tint to it so i expect the batch is made from scratch on the spot with local sand ( not necessarily the reason for lower quality but the chemicals in the sand or other things besides silica can cause issues). the biggest issue though i see with the glass is pure laziness is preparation of it
-matt
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  #37  
Old August 19th, 2009, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I just have a problem with certain people being called lazy, it sounds, well I just don't like it.
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  #38  
Old August 19th, 2009, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
i would argue it doesnt impact the rig. messy welds are a sign of either in experience of the person making them or the person not caring which probably means they dont care about the strength, also sloppy welds can allow for more corrosion at those points and/or trap things in the weld that will allow it to break down.
These things aren't welded; they're brazed/soldered. Technically speaking it's soldered but I tend to use both terms interchangeably because the only difference between them is the temperature the solder/brazing alloy melts at. Welding is fundamentally, physically, and procedurally different. If you are really unhappy just redo the soldering yourself. It takes less skill, experience, and equipment to solder/braze than welding and it isn't very expensive. Welding is overkill for hookahs and would only drive up the costs significantly.

Hookah is one of the only industries where I see "hand-made" being used as a cop out for quality. Typically "hand-made" implies more quality but when I consider how much these things are being built for, it's not surprising to me when I see sloppy soldering or crooked/dented parts. For example, take the price of your average KM, deduct vendor profits, the vendor's shipping cost, distributor's profits, and the distributor's international shipping costs to get what KM is charging for one of these. Then deduct KM profits and material costs to see about how much the laborer is making to put one of these together. Not much is left is there?

My point is it would be cheaper, easier, and quicker for you to clean them up yourself. I say that because even if you could get a manufacturer to make some built better, costs/profit margins for everyone will increase. Just take John's premium KMs for example. His costs are way up for those things because they're limited and pricing is changing which means he can't offer them at prices he would like to, and that has kept a lot of people from buying them despite how much they're liked. The cost and time it would take for you to do some work on your own hookahs to get them to your liking would be far less than trying to convince a vendor/distributor/manufacturer to get you a hookah built the way you want it. Personally I know the industry wouldn't survive if they supplied units at the level of quality I'd want so I do my own work to them. I would actually prefer if I could just buy the parts alone and assemble everything myself.

FWIW, my KM trophy chiller is built better than my AF solid. There is more soldering on the KM and it came cleaner/in better condition than the AF, but I am still redoing most of the soldering anyways. The AF has more solid pieces but all of that is in the decorative portions of the stem so it doesn't really matter much. Actually, my AF is slightly lighter than my Mya Bohemian despite the Mya being smaller by about 3 inches. The KM is the largest, heaviest (hollow stem), and best smoking & purging of the three. The AF performs better than the Mya. The purge tubes in both my KM and AF are crimped instead of properly bent so I'm making new ones for both. The AF came with a very small leak in it that didn't really impact it's performance but it's been bugging me so I planned on replacing it anyways.
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  #39  
Old August 19th, 2009, 08:08 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

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Originally Posted by foibled View Post
These things aren't welded; they're brazed/soldered. Technically speaking it's soldered but I tend to use both terms interchangeably because the only difference between them is the temperature the solder/brazing alloy melts at. Welding is fundamentally, physically, and procedurally different. If you are really unhappy just redo the soldering yourself. It takes less skill, experience, and equipment to solder/braze than welding and it isn't very expensive. Welding is overkill for hookahs and would only drive up the costs significantly.

Hookah is one of the only industries where I see "hand-made" being used as a cop out for quality. Typically "hand-made" implies more quality but when I consider how much these things are being built for, it's not surprising to me when I see sloppy soldering or crooked/dented parts. For example, take the price of your average KM, deduct vendor profits, the vendor's shipping cost, distributor's profits, and the distributor's international shipping costs to get what KM is charging for one of these. Then deduct KM profits and material costs to see about how much the laborer is making to put one of these together. Not much is left is there?

My point is it would be cheaper, easier, and quicker for you to clean them up yourself. I say that because even if you could get a manufacturer to make some built better, costs/profit margins for everyone will increase. Just take John's premium KMs for example. His costs are way up for those things because they're limited and pricing is changing which means he can't offer them at prices he would like to, and that has kept a lot of people from buying them despite how much they're liked. The cost and time it would take for you to do some work on your own hookahs to get them to your liking would be far less than trying to convince a vendor/distributor/manufacturer to get you a hookah built the way you want it. Personally I know the industry wouldn't survive if they supplied units at the level of quality I'd want so I do my own work to them. I would actually prefer if I could just buy the parts alone and assemble everything myself.

FWIW, my KM trophy chiller is built better than my AF solid. There is more soldering on the KM and it came cleaner/in better condition than the AF, but I am still redoing most of the soldering anyways. The AF has more solid pieces but all of that is in the decorative portions of the stem so it doesn't really matter much. Actually, my AF is slightly lighter than my Mya Bohemian despite the Mya being smaller by about 3 inches. The KM is the largest, heaviest (hollow stem), and best smoking & purging of the three. The AF performs better than the Mya. The purge tubes in both my KM and AF are crimped instead of properly bent so I'm making new ones for both. The AF came with a very small leak in it that didn't really impact it's performance but it's been bugging me so I planned on replacing it anyways.
yes you are right on the terms and being me i should have paid more attention to that since i am annoying when it comes to proper terms. the out sides though, at least on mine, have some very uneven lines but only at the ports do you seen any solder and they seem to be blended like you would get by grinding and polishing(yet there is some parts that look like they might have been melted weirdly on the ends or they let it get heated up to much during soldering which is surprising seeing as they use rather low temp junky solder, granted i already look at plumbers solder as junky too but this looks cheaper than that) so its not like it would take much longer to hit the bottom of the chamber or to grind out the loose lip of *** metal that was in the end of my stem.

while ya i can go and re solder it but then i have to pull it apart, grind it clean, line it back up, re solder it, and clean it up, when it should have been done in the first place, granted i dont really have any issues with my solder joints but still people shouldnt have to fix their rigs when they get them

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebaygirl View Post
I just have a problem with certain people being called lazy, it sounds, well I just don't like it.
im not understanding how its not sitting well with you, im not saying all people from X place or all people doing Y in X country are lazy i am saying the people that are passing these things on to us are lazy due to the issues with the product that can be fixed with literally no skill, or just a few more mins with it. honestly all the issues i have seen that are glass related so far are because of laziness/not caring

-matt
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  #40  
Old August 19th, 2009, 11:25 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I repaired my Daughters Brass Hookah by taking all the solder off and silver soldering the joints muck stronger and more durable bit more expensive than normal solder but found that it forms a better seal and joint than solder and less of a tendency to run as solder is want to do if a piece gets to hot. (used to silver solder the joints on the fronts of my canary cages all the time before having them powder coated)
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  #41  
Old August 19th, 2009, 11:54 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

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Originally Posted by glostersa View Post
I repaired my Daughters Brass Hookah by taking all the solder off and silver soldering the joints muck stronger and more durable bit more expensive than normal solder but found that it forms a better seal and joint than solder and less of a tendency to run as solder is want to do if a piece gets to hot. (used to silver solder the joints on the fronts of my canary cages all the time before having them powder coated)
ya only thing that sucks is with brass you basically have to sand it all down again or super pickle it (50/50 pickle/H202) to get all the copper that comes up to the surface (one of the reasons i dont want to attempt to change or fix anything that doesnt totally need it), and not to mention the whole steel in pickle causing copper plating which would just make more of a mess and cause more cleaning

-matt
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  #42  
Old August 19th, 2009, 03:47 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

a lot of pipes don't just have crappy welds, they are missing them all together. there have been a few friends of mine that got an "egyptian" (unsure how true that is since most came from a shop) and the majority of them had the same leak where the hose piece goes into the heart.

one that i bought from a friend who didn't know much even had a copper core! not to mention the same leak, and another at the very base of the shaft right before the downstem.

that is true about the manufacturer not giving a shit though, they won't hear about it. i'd bet that aside from the glassblowing, with the right tools i would be able to craft a better hookah than a lot of them out there
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  #43  
Old August 19th, 2009, 09:45 PM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

i know this dosnt apply directly because its not an egyption but on my chinease hookah theywere was a massive air bubble near the top and today it broke the vase is sstill usable but the top is broken and where it broke it was only half a millimeter thick!
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  #44  
Old August 20th, 2009, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Send me a picture I'll help you out. Stuart123321

Last edited by ebaygirl; August 20th, 2009 at 12:07 AM. Reason: because I did not finish my message
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  #45  
Old August 20th, 2009, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

When you make hookahs we will buy them.Hurry up.
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  #46  
Old August 20th, 2009, 12:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart123321 View Post
i know this dosnt apply directly because its not an egyption but on my chinease hookah theywere was a massive air bubble near the top and today it broke the vase is sstill usable but the top is broken and where it broke it was only half a millimeter thick!
Where do you live? Cause I have a Chinese stem with your name on it.
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  #47  
Old August 20th, 2009, 01:43 AM
ngraz617's Avatar
ngraz617
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I love my KM but also love my two Mya's. They all smoke great. I think Mya overall if they made a line that increased the diameter of their stems and hose adapters would be a killer product and hard to compete with. Those machines that make them are flawless and hard to compete with by hand.
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  #48  
Old August 20th, 2009, 09:45 AM
fritz1
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

None of my Egyptians (I have four) have any issues with glass or leaks at the welds they all smoke very good to excellent, with my 27" Khalil Mamoon having a slight edge, actually my Caravan Hathor is near perfect at the welds it is stunning all over.

my two generic Egyptians are very good with one of them having a couple of small bubbles if you really look hard enough

I have a Mya that leaks at the purge valve at the weld it never purged worth a dam, if I exhale near the hose tip you can see the leak at the valve weld so my two Chinese are dust collectors

I like the Egyptians they work and do whats expected

However I wished the Egyptians would make Hookahs with cruse control and self purging feature, maybe self cleaning or a flush feature
Seriously if I think something is so bad I just don't buy it
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  #49  
Old August 20th, 2009, 10:40 AM
foibled
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fritz1 View Post
I have a Mya that leaks at the purge valve at the weld it never purged worth a dam, if I exhale near the hose tip you can see the leak at the valve weld so my two Chinese are dust collectors
What Mya do you have? Every Mya I've come across does not have a welded purge valve. They're threaded into the chamber and sealed with an o-ring just like the hose ports are. Your o-ring may just be bad.

The bad purging however is because of the common chamber design. You can vastly improve it by making a purge tube out of brass or aluminum. You could also make a ghetto/temporary solution using a straw with one of those bendy necks.
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  #50  
Old August 20th, 2009, 02:32 PM
fritz1
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Default Re: Egyptian "Quality"... WTF?

I don't know what Mya it is I know it had Mya printed on the parts bag and it came with a cary bag it is brass with silver plating that is flaking it has a common chamber

I can't see any O ring from the outside but I'll take a closer look when I get home,I can't see welds either to tell you the truth it also has a male bowl (ceramic) but it's not a Syrian
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