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Obama Signed it

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  #1  
Old August 25th, 2009, 04:10 PM
Hajo Flettner
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Default Obama Signed it

Found out today that the Obamanation signed into law a new bill that gives the FDA the ability to regulate tobacco and clove cigarettes are now illegal. Given the vague, open ended nature of the language of the legislation and the reality that the FDA will interpret it how ever they chose until slapped down by a high court i'm betting that shisha tobacco will be regulated within less then a year. The blurb is here:
Clove cigarettes are officially history. So are "light" cigarettes and your favorite Marlboro billboard next to KinderCare.

Monday in the Rose Garden, President Obama signed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, a bill that gives the Food and Drug Administration the responsibility to regulate tobacco products.

Before signing the bill, Obama said that tobacco-related illnesses are the leading cause of preventable death in the United States, and he detailed all the ways that kids get hooked on smokes before they turn 18. He ought to know, he said, because "I was one of these teenagers, so I know how difficult it can be to break this habit when it's been with you for a long time."

Is the prez still taking drags while nobody's looking? He wouldn't say, but he did say what's in the new law:

* FDA regulations will supersede weaker state laws, a major expansion of federal power;
* The bill bans the words "light" or "mild" in tobacco advertising, as well as any words that give the impression that one cigarette is less dangerous than another;
* It bans flavored tobacco products, like clove or cappuccino cigarettes (yes, they exist);
* It requires companies to submit a complete list of ingredients in the tobacco, paper, filter and other components, and allows the FDA to require the removal of any additive it says is dangerous;
* It requires this list of ingredients to be placed on all labels, which will itemize chemicals added to tobacco products;
* It restricts tobacco marketing to children, such as tobacco billboards near schools.

Finally, the legislation applies to all tobacco products, not just cigarettes, and it passes all of the additional costs of new regulations back to the tobacco companies.

Before we consign the tobacco bill to history, however, let's take a quick look back at the House floor debate that gave us the words from Republican Steve Buyer of Indiana, never-before spoken in the history of Congress: "Go ahead and you smoke your lettuce!"
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/06...stobacco-bill/

Change we can believe in!
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  #2  
Old August 25th, 2009, 05:03 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

I don't really see any down side to this.
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  #3  
Old August 25th, 2009, 05:05 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostc4 View Post
I don't really see any down side to this.
I read on another forum, that had a list of banned ingredients to tobacco products after the ban and it listed glycerin, honey, anise...some shisha notables.

EDIT: I just made a shisha order(or two) that will keep me covered until at least early 2010, so, we'll see.
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  #4  
Old August 25th, 2009, 05:08 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Quote:
It requires companies to submit a complete list of ingredients in the tobacco, paper, filter and other components, and allows the FDA to require the removal of any additive it says is dangerous
How is honey or glycerin dangerous? For the most part the FDA does a lot of good keeping us healthy.

Side note: Not sure what Anise is used for so I am not going to dispute that.

Last edited by Ghostc4; August 25th, 2009 at 05:10 PM.
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  #5  
Old August 25th, 2009, 05:13 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostc4 View Post
How is honey or glycerin dangerous? For the most part the FDA does a lot of good keeping us healthy.

Side note: Not sure what Anise is used for so I am not going to dispute that.
I have no idea how any of this works, or what any of it means to be honest. I'm under the impression anise is in most DA flavors, since thats what everyone says it tastes/smells like.

Neither are dangerous, no, but the point of this bill - as I understood - was to keep kids from wanted 'flavored' tobacco.
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  #6  
Old August 25th, 2009, 05:18 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

OH NO! You might have to make your own shisha. Fack that is just too much work for me. Well damn it's too bad I don't want my children to smoke or I might actually want to protest this.
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  #7  
Old August 25th, 2009, 05:19 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Quote:
Originally Posted by mwrecording View Post
I have no idea how any of this works, or what any of it means to be honest. I'm under the impression anise is in most DA flavors, since thats what everyone says it tastes/smells like.

Neither are dangerous, no, but the point of this bill - as I understood - was to keep kids from wanted 'flavored' tobacco.
Yes, but at this point it seem to only be aimed at cigarettes. Unfortunately the popularity of Shisha is going up, but on the flip side Obama seems to be a fairly intelligent man and will hopefully pay attention to the tar and nicotine content.
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  #8  
Old August 25th, 2009, 05:42 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

You guys don't get. The FDA now has the right to control all aspects of the production and sale of all tobacco products in U.S. Apparently none of you guys have ever had to deal with the FDA so i'm betting you don't understand that meeting the regulatory requirements in which you have to prove something is safe rather then someone else having to prove other wise does to the cost of products. What the FDA does is drive up the cost of making food and beverages radically meaning that those industries are dominated by a handful of huge companies.

While it's true the justification for the legislation was banning evil flaoured cigarettes because they need to "save the children" the bottom line is that all tobacco products will now have to undergo expensive, complicated, time consuming bureaucratic review by people that hate tobacco and think you shouldn't have access to it. What this means is that a lot of tobacco products will banned (like cloves and many flavoured cigarettes have been already) and flavoured cigars (Drew Estate/Acid etc) are next. Since the anti-tobacco lobby already knows about hates narghiles it's a safe bet that they are next.

Time to stock up and start learning about how to make your own moassel.
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  #9  
Old August 25th, 2009, 06:55 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Sigh....

Change you can believe in alright....
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  #10  
Old August 25th, 2009, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

I spent the better half of two months researching this bill for my article for the hookah e-zine. It worried me and now it's signed so we just have to see what the fall out will be for the hookah community.
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  #11  
Old August 25th, 2009, 07:37 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

might as well just pass the law making us criminals for smoking, there 99.9% there...
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  #12  
Old August 25th, 2009, 07:54 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Yea this bill is pretty scary, I mean it could go either way .. for us or against us. I guess we'll just have to hope for the best. And hopefully some one will post a "open source" tobacco recipe.
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  #13  
Old August 25th, 2009, 08:40 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

i was talking to a local tobacconist about this - he wasnt worried. There is always ways aroudn this stuff - for example, a few ciggarette makers just wrapped anything that got banned in a tobacco leave, technically making it a cigar, and it was fine. Basically, as long as hookah stays mostly under the radar, the focus of this bill will be cigarettes and hookah will be left alone.
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  #14  
Old August 25th, 2009, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

I heard of this when I went to my local cigar shop. I was buying a pack of Djarums and the owner said that Obama is going to sign to ban cloves and flavored tobacco and the only cloves I can get after that that are flavored are menthol...it's going to be in effect I think next month so I'm stocking up on my supers before they're gone =( (just incase).
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  #15  
Old August 25th, 2009, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

I couldn't find this on any of the major news network websites. But it's still scary as hell.
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  #16  
Old August 25th, 2009, 09:01 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

plans that rely on hope arn't very good at success really. Hoping this won't effect you isn't going to get anyone anywhere, when asked about this, if you believe its wrong, says its wrong! you are allowed to have dissenting opinions. You are allowed to think if something is right or wrong.

Look this is what i do...

I think this is wrong. Is tobacco bad for you, yes. Should it be held up to being truthful about what it is, yes. Should I be allowed to make the choice if i want to use this product? YES. Freedom means being able to make the choice to do something that someone else may view is highly stupid. I think believing in a supernatural being that judges every minute of your day to send you to mind bogglingly happy bliss, or a torrent of fire and pain, as DUMB. And I'm allowed that opnion. However IF i was asked to support a law that made belief in any religion illegal, I couldn't support it. And trust me, there would be A LOT of people that would get out and voice there opinions about that.(Hence why I chose that example.) You should be allowed to make your own choices in life. To choose what people can and can't do with there life is morally presumptuous. That's what I believe and that apply's to all aspects of my life. SO can i make the choice for someone else about tobacco, NO. They need the freedom to make that choice for themselves. Any law that "protects people from themselves" takes that choice from the individual, and gives it to someone else.

this BTW is a response to "Yea this bill is pretty scary, I mean it could go either way .. for us or against us. I guess we'll just have to hope for the best. And hopefully some one will post a "open source" tobacco recipe."

I can understand being undecided, but if your smoking, and you wish to keep smoking, i would think this would give you more of an opnion than to hope for the best!
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  #17  
Old August 25th, 2009, 09:11 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Hajo, some are either not concerned enough or maybe too young to remember all the things the FDA has screwed up for the country. They also don't really understand the economics of it or the rights that should not be infringed upon.

Too many are willing to say "well they have protected us" or "they are only looking out for our well being" not realizing that this type of reasoning will have them in a totalitarian state in a few years. Then they will wish they had done something now instead of believing all the governmental lies.

Not meaning to offend anyone......

As for me and the wife we are getting ready to start growing our own tobacco this next fall and stocking up on enough to get us through. BTW let the gevernment try to confiscate my tobacco, and yes it is coming, there will be a fight they won't soon forget.

"From my cold dead hands" - Charlton Heston



Madwolf I agree with everything you said. You are right on target.
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Last edited by paulk; August 25th, 2009 at 09:14 PM.
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  #18  
Old August 25th, 2009, 09:12 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

I don't understand it either Hajo. And I definitely agree with madwolf about choice, I smoke because I want to smoke not because I'm addicted or think it's cool.

You're probably not aware (since you don't live here in the USA I mean) but pretty much every commercial break on TV there's an anti-tobacco ad in your face. There's more anti-tobacco ads than drug/alcohol warnings if I had to guess! Sheesh!

Seems like this could hurt the economy too seeing as how we produce so much tobacco here. Tobacco farmers are kind of screwed already though with having to pay ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS fees and get a permit just to grow a crop.

And in the end it it really comes down to their ability to take away some of our free will. If I wanted to quit I'd freakin quit, it's not as hard as people pretend it is. (Not for me anyway.)
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  #19  
Old August 25th, 2009, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

this is a pretty scary bill for anyone who uses any type of tobacco. I looked a little through the bill and there was no mention of shisha or hookah specifically, i found one part that may be hopeful.

"‘‘beginning 3 months after the date of enactment of
20 the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco
21 Control Act, a cigarette or any of its component
22 parts (including the tobacco, filter, or paper)
23 shall not contain, as a constituent
(including a
24 smoke constituent) or additive, an artificial or
25 natural flavor (other than tobacco or menthol) or
1 an herb or spice, including strawberry, grape,
2 orange, clove, cinnamon, pineapple, vanilla, co3
conut, licorice, cocoa, chocolate, cherry, or coffee,
4 that is a characterizing flavor of the tobacco
5 product or tobacco smoke."

so from just that part, it looks as if the flavor restrictions only apply to Cigarettes...at least im really hoping that's what it means.


EDIT: Also found this, if anyone is interested
‘‘(b) APPLICABILITY.—This chapter shall apply to all
18 cigarettes, cigarette tobacco, roll-your-own tobacco, and
19 smokeless tobacco and to any other tobacco products that
20 the Secretary by regulation deems to be subject to this chapter."

so like someone said before, if shisha can stay under the radar, looks like all should be ok.

Last edited by blehman; August 25th, 2009 at 09:53 PM.
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  #20  
Old August 25th, 2009, 10:01 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

asdfasfasdf

Last edited by Str0mz0r; December 1st, 2014 at 05:03 PM.
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  #21  
Old August 25th, 2009, 10:35 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

"if shisha can stay under the radar, looks like all should be ok"

Well consider how fast the hookah market is growing, I doubt that will happen.
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  #22  
Old August 25th, 2009, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

People stress to much LOL. Just pack a bowl turn on the tv and wait to see what happens it's really all we can do. LOL
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Old August 25th, 2009, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Its not really scary to me.If it happens,we as a community will figure out a way around it,together.
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  #24  
Old August 25th, 2009, 11:23 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

Personally, I think that some of the ideas are alright. Lets just hope they dont get rid of frost snus or Grizzly wintergreen. Once those go, then hookah is the only thing that i will allow myself to absorb nicotine with...

oh well, we can only wait.
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  #25  
Old August 25th, 2009, 11:50 PM
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Default Re: Obama Signed it

I feel that they should focus more on educating minors that banning the product. Put the truth out there and let each person make their own decision. If a 16 year chooses to smoke or use tobacco in general, not that I'm advocating minors using tobacco, so be it. Its a decision they made, the information is out there that tobacco use is detrimental to your health this is something that is beat into your brain here in the US from the time you enter school, and they will have to deal with the repercussions of that decision later in life. I personally never used tobacco until I was 18 but then I started going to hookah cafes and I found it to be something I enjoy as well as the occasional cigar, I did this knowing that smoking is bad for you but is something I enjoy to relax and socialize. I don't smoke cigarettes, never will either, they smell like asshole to me. Banning any kind of substance doesn't work, look at the success of the "War on Drugs". If you want a better example look at alcohol, just because the drinking age is 21 doesn't mean people underage aren't drinking. Its the taboo effect, when your prohibited from obtaining something, it adds to the excitement of having it or obtaining it. Banning flavored tobacco isn't solving anything and its just making Philip Morris look like a champion in the anti-youth smoking campaign by supporting the bill all the while eliminating negligible but present competition, since when have you seen a teenager smoking flavored or kreteks the retail for $8-9 a pack. Its a Marlboro ( Philip Morris...weird) or some other brand that is in their hand. Teenage smokers leads to adult smokers which is exactly what big tobacco wants, limit the competion and hook them on a brand. Shisha is one of the most natural tobacco products available next to cigars and its a hobby that you need special equipment, which isn't exactly cheap, that can only be found at a cigarshop or online, both are places that would be cautious to selling to anyone under the age of 18. Just my 5 cents, I've done enough ranting for the past few weeks. I'm getting off my soapbox for now and sitting down to pack a bowl and relax...
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