Home User CP Browse Members Calendar Register Today!  
Get New posts Faq / Help? Community Menu
   

Go Back   Hookah Pro - Hookah Forum > Hookah Stuff > Hookah Discussion

Hookah Discussion General discussion related to hookah ...

I don't know my facts

Hookah Discussion

Reply Share
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old October 24th, 2009, 05:38 AM
MichaelMassacre's Avatar
MichaelMassacre
Status: Offline
Hookah Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,014
Send a message via AIM to MichaelMassacre
Default I don't know my facts

So at work I was mentioning how hookah doesn't contain tar since tar is derived from burning of a substance. Hookah is 'vaporized' is what I claimed. When packed right and with natural coals there is no burning. My question is what does the 'vapor' do to lungs as well as any resources as to how this is vaporized and the theoretical health defects of inhaling a vapor. Mostly I am looking for a guru of Hajo's posts haha. Thanks!
__________________
KM Carnival | KM Exotica | KM Black Pearl | KM Double Pear
Nakhla, El Hennawy, Tangiers Noir & Desi Murli
http://www.icepets.com - NOW OPEN
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old October 24th, 2009, 06:04 AM
opticalshadow
Status: Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 556
Default Re: I don't know my facts

it may be vaporized but all smoke contains particles of some kind, which is why it blackens your lungs, its why you get gunk in your hose, the same stuff you have to clean off of that stays with your lungs
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old October 24th, 2009, 07:03 AM
BobMarley's Avatar
BobMarley
Status: Offline
Hookah Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,856
Default Re: I don't know my facts

Don't forget that vegetable glycerin and honey/molasses are also organic. I (ass)ume they burn in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old October 24th, 2009, 01:19 PM
ZenSilk's Avatar
ZenSilk
Status: Offline
Hookah Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,605
Default Re: I don't know my facts

Well, Hajo doesn't inhale his smoke, and neither do I anymore, and prolonged extreme water vapor inhalation from what I know is pretty bad...

Here's an excerpt from a company that manufactures prop. glycol (not glycerol):
"Exposure to mists may cause eye irritation, as well as upper respiratory tract irritation.18 Inhalation of the PG vapors appears to present no significant hazard in ordinary applications. However, limited human experience indicates that inhalation of PG mists may be irritating to some individuals. Therefore inhalation exposure to mists of these materials should be avoided. In general, Dow does not support or recommend the use of PG in applications where inhalation exposure or human eye contact with the spray mists of these materials is likely, such as fogs for theatrical productions or antifreeze solutions for emergency eye wash stations.19 "

Studies of glycol inhalation on rats and various other toxicology studies pertaining to glycol additive in cigarettes also comes to the conclusion that glycol does not add any adverse health effects.

This brings us to the tobacco in Starbuzz/AF/Fantasia/etc. It would mean that this tobacco is simply used as a body or filler for the glycerol (with flavor bound to it) to stick to. SO some tobacco is burned of course, but mostly glycerol is vaporized. Glyercol contains a good amount of water as well, it is a humectant, meaning is it a hygroscopic substance, meaning it absorbs water from the air (that is why it is added to cigarettes, to keep them a bit moist).

Whether it is glycerol or prop. glycol added into hookah tobacco, tests have been conducted that come to the conclusion it is safe.

Last edited by ZenSilk; October 24th, 2009 at 01:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old October 24th, 2009, 03:16 PM
MichaelMassacre's Avatar
MichaelMassacre
Status: Offline
Hookah Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,014
Send a message via AIM to MichaelMassacre
Default Re: I don't know my facts

Definitely agree with the gunk in the hose aspect. But after switching my style to natural coals, phunnels and nakhla I haven't gotten gunk in my hose. If prepared right the ash abd tobacco won't get in the base, which is the gunk culprit if I am correct. So without gunk in the hose there is no gunk in your lungs ?
__________________
KM Carnival | KM Exotica | KM Black Pearl | KM Double Pear
Nakhla, El Hennawy, Tangiers Noir & Desi Murli
http://www.icepets.com - NOW OPEN
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old October 24th, 2009, 04:22 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: I don't know my facts

I'm afraid I can't be of much help on this subject since the reality is that not much worth while research exists on the subject and what is out there doesn't really have enough depth to draw an informed opinion on. The various links i've posted on the risk factors associated with tobacco consumption in general are easy enough to dig up but I don't feel like dredging them up for the hundredth time since it seems no one bothers to read them.

Our valued German compatriot PC Serve has a fairly topical thread found here: http://www.hookahpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10991 which doesn't really address the matter at hand and is far from comprehensive but it has some utility. What I can say with a great deal of certainty is:

1) Given the incredibly poor and heavily biased material that exists on cigarettes any sort of base line measure for making a comparison with moassel consumption is almost impossible given the vast problems of forming sensible control and experimental groups and the huge variability of narghile design, smoking method, coal characteristics and moassel composition.

However, one can safely say that cigarette consumption at the level of a pack a day increases one's life time risk of lung cancer and a variety of cardio-pulmonary diseases by a factor of X4-X8 depending upon which studies you reference in Occidentals but less so with other races. Bottom line is that the intervening, contributing and compounding variables in narhgile use are simply far to varied and complicated to be handled adequately in a few studies and the political/social/economic/religious baggage is such that I doubt much will be done to rectify the matter.

2) Water is not a great filter medium although diffusers help a good deal. So the truth is that all smoke will contain solids but the best way to reduce that problem is to clean your narghile and hose frequently and carefully.

3) All moassel (save the hard to find old school stuff that isn't imported often) uses glycerin to add a bit of sweetness and increase smoke production and prop. glycol is not used in any moassel that I am aware of. Glycerin is a simple sugar and the effects of inhaling vaporized glycerin is very much an unknown health risk.

4) By far the most dangerous aspect of smoking moassel is the CO created by the coals. I've done some half assed studies on my own using mass spectrometry and I found that the natural coals resulted in far less CO then QLs. I also found that the height of the narghile had a lot to to do with CO content but that mainly smoking method is what matters most. The matter of smoking method is something that has been confirmed in the Sullum text I cited as well as Frenk's text on nicotine absorption and addiction.

5) Inhaling smoke is a bad idea since it has a significant, although heavily debated, set of risk factors. Since no human has taste buds in the lungs or throat I don't see the point in haling since to me smoking is about taste, craftsmanship, comradery and taking time out to absorb your surroundings.

Last edited by Hajo Flettner; October 24th, 2009 at 04:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old October 24th, 2009, 05:31 PM
blazingking's Avatar
blazingking
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 443
Default Re: I don't know my facts

my friend said his aunty smoked nearly all day and went she went hospital they found water in her lungs but then i dont think water vapour goes in the lungs as the water in my base never goes down after a session.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old October 24th, 2009, 06:33 PM
foibled
Status: Offline
Hookah Pro
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: OC
Posts: 541
Default Re: I don't know my facts

Quote:
Originally Posted by blazingking View Post
my friend said his aunty smoked nearly all day and went she went hospital they found water in her lungs but then i dont think water vapour goes in the lungs as the water in my base never goes down after a session.
Water vapor is from the moisture in the moassel. Water is present in the glycerine, tobacco, molasses, and flavoring depending on type. Glycerine itself is very hygroscopic and will absorb water from the air until it equalizes with humidity levels. IIRC, glycerine at equilibirum is ~20% water by weight. This is what it means to "acclimate" moassel. Low water content moassels have the most issues with it due to longer acclimation times.

The water in the base is for filtration and cooling.


Oh and to make that bubbly noise.
Reply With Quote
Reply Share
Share with your friends on facebook

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Alright im sick of the hookah facts all wrong drewskadoo Hookah Discussion 44 August 18th, 2010 11:32 AM
Talk facts about the illegalization of Fruit Tobacco & Chat MichaelMassacre Hookah Discussion 28 June 28th, 2009 08:28 PM
The Facts And Truth About Soex 100% Tobacco Free Herbal Hookah ExoticImports Hookah Discussion 38 May 1st, 2008 04:37 PM
Exotic Imports / Exotica Brand / Exotica Coal - Facts and Truth ExoticImports Hookah Discussion 20 January 1st, 2008 04:41 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:19 PM.

Skin Design By vBSkinworks



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 - 2012, Hookah Pro Inc.