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did my shisha ferment?

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  #1  
Old November 20th, 2009, 10:59 PM
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Default did my shisha ferment?

ok, i recently had some shisha stored in a kitchen cabenite and when i got it all down to repack into rubbermaid containers some of my mizo looked slightly differ then what i remember, its color is just a bit lighter it seem, it also is more wet and not as sticky. though it smells the same as i remember it
here is a pic, idk how useful the pic is but i thought you guys might liek one.

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  #2  
Old November 20th, 2009, 11:01 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

hmmm..I wonder if that's what happened to my Mizo Mint...stuff is nasty now..
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  #3  
Old November 20th, 2009, 11:04 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

i have some tobaccos that are well over a year old and they are just as fresh as when i bought them. but they are in ziplocks that have had the air sucked out of them.
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Old November 20th, 2009, 11:05 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
i have some tobaccos that are well over a year old and they are just as fresh as when i bought them. but they are in ziplocks that have had the air sucked out of them.
this shisha is less then 2 weeks old i think it might have to do with where it was sotred, maybe it got really warm in there.
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  #5  
Old November 20th, 2009, 11:16 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

No. Fermentation would have changed the smell and flavor. You would have also noticed the container swelling with CO2.

Perhaps it acclimated to ambient moisture and the mixture changed slightly in viscosity.
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  #6  
Old November 20th, 2009, 11:20 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
No. Fermentation would have changed the smell and flavor. You would have also noticed the container swelling with CO2.

Perhaps it acclimated to ambient moisture and the mixture changed slightly in viscosity.
Yes, I see. Something with that many big words surly must be correct.
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  #7  
Old November 20th, 2009, 11:56 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
....Perhaps it acclimated to ambient moisture and the mixture changed slightly in viscosity.
That's what I thought happened to my mizo mint, but after many hours of acclimating, it still smells like feet!
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Old November 20th, 2009, 11:59 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

I'm not sure it's possible for shisha to ferment, frankly. It's made with Molasses, which would take AGES to go bad.. might crystallize if it's too cold but that's about it. The tobacco is coated enough with the molasses not to be exposed to the elements enough to ferment.
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  #9  
Old November 21st, 2009, 12:44 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by Dee View Post
That's what I thought happened to my mizo mint, but after many hours of acclimating, it still smells like feet!
So that is who got that old pair of socks of mine
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  #10  
Old November 21st, 2009, 12:59 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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I'm not sure it's possible for shisha to ferment, frankly. It's made with Molasses, which would take AGES to go bad.. might crystallize if it's too cold but that's about it. The tobacco is coated enough with the molasses not to be exposed to the elements enough to ferment.
Molasses can actually ferment quite readily. If the water content gets higher than like 17% it will start to ferment if wild yeast takes hold.

Dee, acclimation in the actual definition means to reach a balance with some outside influence. When you heat something it's becoming acclimated to the increased temperature and when you remove the heat source it acclimates to the ambient air.

What I meant was that the molasses absorbed moisture from the air because it was a more humid environment that it had once been in. This would cause a change in the consistency of the liquid. More water mean "wetter" and less sticky.
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Old November 21st, 2009, 01:23 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
Molasses can actually ferment quite readily. If the water content gets higher than like 17% it will start to ferment if wild yeast takes hold.

Dee, acclimation in the actual definition means to reach a balance with some outside influence. When you heat something it's becoming acclimated to the increased temperature and when you remove the heat source it acclimates to the ambient air.

What I meant was that the molasses absorbed moisture from the air because it was a more humid environment that it had once been in. This would cause a change in the consistency of the liquid. More water mean "wetter" and less sticky.
Yes, I understand. My theory was that when I sealed mine in the container, the humidity and ambient temperature were very different from what it is now. The temp and humidity have been all over the map here the past couple weeks, so I figured the bad smell was just do to the fact that it needed to re-acclimate. But again, after many hours exposed to the current conditions the smell is still there, a little less maybe but still. Also, the other tobaccos that came in at the same time haven't shown the same symptoms, so it must be something else..bad batch maybe I don't know.
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Last edited by Dee; November 21st, 2009 at 01:25 AM.
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  #12  
Old November 21st, 2009, 02:31 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by Dee View Post
Yes, I understand. My theory was that when I sealed mine in the container, the humidity and ambient temperature were very different from what it is now. The temp and humidity have been all over the map here the past couple weeks, so I figured the bad smell was just do to the fact that it needed to re-acclimate. But again, after many hours exposed to the current conditions the smell is still there, a little less maybe but still. Also, the other tobaccos that came in at the same time haven't shown the same symptoms, so it must be something else..bad batch maybe I don't know.
Ya, sadly I would suspect a bad batch. It happens. It sucks.
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  #13  
Old November 21st, 2009, 03:23 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
Molasses can actually ferment quite readily. If the water content gets higher than like 17% it will start to ferment if wild yeast takes hold.
Quoted for truth. If anything seperates the sugars in malasses, be it water or another organize that can eat complex sugars, yeast will def stop by for some buffet! I was a bit afraid of this happenning to some of my shisha because I have 4 different sourdough starters and about 5 gallons of poolish in my house, pretty much pure yeasty heaven =D
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Old November 21st, 2009, 11:32 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by Sui View Post
Quoted for truth. If anything seperates the sugars in malasses, be it water or another organize that can eat complex sugars, yeast will def stop by for some buffet! I was a bit afraid of this happenning to some of my shisha because I have 4 different sourdough starters and about 5 gallons of poolish in my house, pretty much pure yeasty heaven =D

Happily, glycerin is a preservative that will usually inhibit this. I am a home brewer myself and have never had any issues. Now I kind of want to use some extra yeast and see if this is even possible.
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Old November 21st, 2009, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dee View Post
That's what I thought happened to my mizo mint, but after many hours of acclimating, it still smells like feet!
Well, maybe you could mix it with gym-shorts flavor and maybe a pinch of armpit and you could call it the locker room blend.
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  #16  
Old November 21st, 2009, 02:13 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
Happily, glycerin is a preservative that will usually inhibit this. I am a home brewer myself and have never had any issues. Now I kind of want to use some extra yeast and see if this is even possible.

Tehee, different species of yeast I am afraid. I'm a baker all my yeast is for bread, I have 2 mother sourdough starters one from Floridian wild yeast (2 yrs old) and one from here with wild texan yeast ( still a baby) The rest of my starter is grape founded and my poolishes are all from commercial cultures. I think it would be fun to get some brewers yeast though and see if I can bake with it. Only problem with brewers yeast is it dies quickly and might not be strong enough to kick in my breads.
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Old November 21st, 2009, 02:27 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Tehee, different species of yeast I am afraid. I'm a baker all my yeast is for bread, I have 2 mother sourdough starters one from Floridian wild yeast (2 yrs old) and one from here with wild texan yeast ( still a baby) The rest of my starter is grape founded and my poolishes are all from commercial cultures. I think it would be fun to get some brewers yeast though and see if I can bake with it. Only problem with brewers yeast is it dies quickly and might not be strong enough to kick in my breads.
Actually Basic fleischmans is almost identical in strain to Lavlin EC-1118 which is a nice and strong wine yeast. There are some flavor differences that are more apparent in brewing then in baking so a good wine yeast should be strong enough for you. If you try let me know how it works out. I would be tempted to culture the wine yeast and add it as part of the liquid for the recipe so that it was evenly incorporated and well innoculated.
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Old November 21st, 2009, 02:29 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
Actually Basic fleischmans is almost identical in strain to Lavlin EC-1118 which is a nice and strong wine yeast. There are some flavor differences that are more apparent in brewing then in baking so a good wine yeast should be strong enough for you. If you try let me know how it works out. I would be tempted to culture the wine yeast and add it as part of the liquid for the recipe so that it was evenly incorporated and well innoculated.
By basic fleisch, do you mean active dry or commercial blocks?
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Old November 21st, 2009, 03:09 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

I would just lay it out over night on a flat area like your counter. And just coat it with a little bitof honey through out all of it... And leave it there. Then next day refridgeate it. I did that with my mix and it was perfect. What flavor is it anyway?..
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  #20  
Old November 22nd, 2009, 06:01 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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By basic fleisch, do you mean active dry or commercial blocks?
Active dry.
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  #21  
Old November 22nd, 2009, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Active dry.


Hmm I didnt know that I wonder if the cultures are the same in their dry and commercial, only difference I can think of is processing and refrigeration. I know that commercial blocks are pretty much pure live yeast, whereas dry is mostly dead yeast with a few live ones feasting on their dead buddies lol
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Old November 22nd, 2009, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

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Originally Posted by Sui View Post
Hmm I didnt know that I wonder if the cultures are the same in their dry and commercial, only difference I can think of is processing and refrigeration. I know that commercial blocks are pretty much pure live yeast, whereas dry is mostly dead yeast with a few live ones feasting on their dead buddies lol
Not true at all. A single packet of Active dry yeast for brewing contains around 150 billions living cells.

It is true that block is mostly alive. If you really want to inoculate something you can go with active liquid culture. Or you could even go so far as to use a smack pack that includes active liquid and yeast energizer/nutrients. Starts fermentation in a matter of minutes. But then you may be spending somewhere around 10 buck per loaf lol. Yay for home culturing.

Last edited by kalutika; November 22nd, 2009 at 02:26 PM.
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  #23  
Old November 26th, 2009, 09:21 PM
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Default Re: did my shisha ferment?

Make an enemy smoke it, see if he/she gets sick
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