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Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

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  #26  
Old January 25th, 2010, 03:07 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

wtf.. taxes increasing on tobacco again? fuckin bullshit..

signed and sent a couple of times lol
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  #27  
Old January 25th, 2010, 03:44 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by foibled View Post
I'm kinda surprised there hasn't been a thread posted here about this yet but here is what brought it up from the most recent Ed Hardy thread:







http://pipesmagazine.com/python/pipe...-pipe-tobacco/

For those too lazy to click and read the link, a proposed tax bill is currently in the hands of the House Committee on Ways and Means that will increase the Federal tax on pipe tobacco from $2.8311 per pound to $24.78 per pound. The intent is to make the tax on pipe tobacco the same as roll-your-own tobacco to close the door on many roll-your-own makers that have been selling their products as pipe tobacco to avoid the high taxes that got hiked up last year. As far as hookah tobacco goes, this will increase the Federal tax on 250g by $13.66.




edit: Just so there is no confusion, the bill is only proposed. It is not something that has passed and will happen, yet. If you want to join in on spamming your Congressman/women & Senators in hopes they will actually listen, here are some links to help you:

http://www.rallycongress.com/stop-th...e-tobacco-tax/
http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/pipe-n...e-tobacco-tax/
My quote you cited is out of context in that I was referring to a high price being justified if the quality was commensurate. Needless to say I am totally opposed to yet another tax increase because I object to the state forcing me to stop doing something I enjoy based on junk science. The more oppressive the tax the less revenue it will generate and the more jobs it will destroy. However, the fact is that tobacco users are not well organized and are basically apathetic so I am sure that this tax increase will happen with no more resistance then any of the others that came before it.
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  #28  
Old January 25th, 2010, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by foibled View Post
I am no Obama lover by any means or even a Democrat but I fail to see how you attribute the impositions on tobacco to him or his party. When last year's tax increases were expected not to get through the House it was because of the Democrats who opposed it, and the swing vote that approved it came from a Republican. Hell, the recent pushes to outright ban tobacco altogether came from a Republican Senator.

Both parties are responsible. Hold them all accountable.
While I have no doubt that a big portion of the GOP will support the tax hike out of fear of the anti-tobacco lobby the motive force for this tax bill is strongly Democratic in base. I say that not just because Obama loves the idea of taxing tobacco out of existence but the same is true of all, or nearly all, Democrats in Congress and literally every pro-Democratic PAC/interest group around. The Democrats like the idea of oppressing tobacco because they think it will pay for nationalized health care and also because they like the idea of a nanny state on general principles.

Of course it won't pay for health care because when the price of something rises dramatically consumption and tax revenues decline. Also, Obama isn't really nationalized health care but merely a scheme to force people to buy insurance from companies that give money to the Democratic party combined with massive government regulation of the health care industry and lots of tax payer subsidies designed to reimburse insurance companies for having to provide insurance to people that they normally wouldn't. Naturally when you are forced to take Obamacare you'll also have to accept the taxes that come along with it.

Oh, by the way, I despise the GOP as well.

Last edited by Hajo Flettner; January 25th, 2010 at 03:58 AM.
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  #29  
Old January 25th, 2010, 08:41 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSebsch View Post
PS: It's not even clear that this tobacco tax would also be applicable to hookah tobacco since you can make 150g of hookah tobacco from about 15-20 grams of dry/pipe tobacco.

The weight of the tobacco in the hookah tobacco is only a tiny percentage. The molasses makes up most of the weight that you see printed on the tobacco boxes.
Hookah tobacco is taxed as pipe tobacco and Federal tobacco taxes are based on product weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
there is 0 reason for this at all. how do they leave cigs out of it? it would easily generate 100x more money
It all started because of cigarettes. This was proposed to keep makers from rebranding their tobacco to get out of the higher tax rates.

If this does end up gaining support and passes, I would expect cigars to be targeted next because of companies like Djarum who are avoiding the flavored tobacco ban by adding leaf pulp to their clove wrappers, repackaging them into packs of 12, and calling them filtered cigars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
My quote you cited is out of context in that I was referring to a high price being justified if the quality was commensurate.
Ah, in hindsight I should have worded my response differently. I can remove your quote from the OP if it bothers you being there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
However, the fact is that tobacco users are not well organized and are basically apathetic so I am sure that this tax increase will happen with no more resistance then any of the others that came before it.
There is some optimism to be had in the possibility that the lack of public reporting on the proposition is an indication that it is not being seriously considered but at the same time it wouldn't surprise me if it did pass without becoming a story.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
While I have no doubt that a big portion of the GOP will support the tax hike out of fear of the anti-tobacco lobby the motive force for this tax bill is strongly Democratic in base. I say that not just because Obama loves the idea of taxing tobacco out of existence but the same is true of all, or nearly all, Democrats in Congress and literally every pro-Democratic PAC/interest group around. The Democrats like the idea of oppressing tobacco because they think it will pay for nationalized health care and also because they like the idea of a nanny state on general principles.

Of course it won't pay for health care because when the price of something rises dramatically consumption and tax revenues decline. Also, Obama isn't really nationalized health care but merely a scheme to force people to buy insurance from companies that give money to the Democratic party combined with massive government regulation of the health care industry and lots of tax payer subsidies designed to reimburse insurance companies for having to provide insurance to people that they normally wouldn't. Naturally when you are forced to take Obamacare you'll also have to accept the taxes that come along with it.

Oh, by the way, I despise the GOP as well.
While health care was the primary selling point to the public for the last round of tax hikes in 2009, I am of the opinion that tax increases on tobacco would have occurred regardless if McCain was in office; they would just find a different excuse to justify it. I feel it is unfair to blame Democrats for tobacco tax increases when there were those that publicly opposed it last year. There is disagreement on the issue among the Democrats just as there is among the Republicans as well.
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  #30  
Old January 25th, 2010, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

How did we end up at the fact that tobacco taxes were going to pay for Health Care?

I think the current administration has better things to pay for, mainly the huge debt, than Health Insurance. Your Health Insurance would be paid by you, and you only, by paying a monthly tax amount. It's like paying a flat rate price for your health insurance, unless you wish to purchase Private Insurance.

@foibled: Alright, thanks for that info. Maybe the mix-it-yourself style tobacco like Elements will make it big in the US then? I got about 200g of Shisha tobacco out of 10g Tobacco.
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  #31  
Old January 25th, 2010, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

only solution: smash the state
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  #32  
Old January 25th, 2010, 09:24 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZbvi6Tj6E
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  #33  
Old January 25th, 2010, 09:30 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

just in case anyone was wondering, i was being semi satirical since a revolution is going to be more of the same crap with a new name.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5JeCKvJOo sums it up pretty well in song form
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  #34  
Old January 25th, 2010, 10:13 AM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sui View Post
Oh FFS, fuck this I'm moving to Egypt.
I'm behind you 100% on that one.
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  #35  
Old January 25th, 2010, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSebsch View Post
Your Health Insurance would be paid by you, and you only, by paying a monthly tax amount. It's like paying a flat rate price for your health insurance, unless you wish to purchase Private Insurance.
And that's bullshit too. Whether or not I have insurance is my business and mine alone. Either way is requiring me to have it. Government should not be in the business of paying people's medical bills.
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  #36  
Old January 25th, 2010, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

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Originally Posted by uglybiker View Post
And that's bullshit too. Whether or not I have insurance is my business and mine alone. Either way is requiring me to have it. Government should not be in the business of paying people's medical bills.
Well when you decide not to have insurance and you get an emergency procedure, tax payers are the ones paying for you because you don't want to get health insurance.

If you want to get into this a little more, open another thread, that discussion doesn't belong in here.
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  #37  
Old January 25th, 2010, 01:14 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSebsch View Post
Well when you decide not to have insurance and you get an emergency procedure, tax payers are the ones paying for you because you don't want to get health insurance.

If you want to get into this a little more, open another thread, that discussion doesn't belong in here.
wait are you telling me when i went to the hospital and the insurance didnt cover it all i had to do was say im not paying it and the tax payers would have picked it up?
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  #38  
Old January 25th, 2010, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

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Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
wait are you telling me when i went to the hospital and the insurance didnt cover it all i had to do was say im not paying it and the tax payers would have picked it up?

Only if it's an emergency/life threatening situation.

If you come in and your baby is about to be born, they'll take you in.

If you get into a car wreck and it's a life threatening situation, they'll take you in.

If you have a heart attack, they'll take you in.

As long as you have no insurance, the tax payer AND the insured pick up the cost.
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  #39  
Old January 25th, 2010, 01:47 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

thats exactly why they didnt cover it. i had hip surgery since i had a hollow hip. they doctors said it could break and possibly have the femur break through my skin or damage the nerves so badly that my leg wouldnt work anymore. either way they saw it as a "cosmetic" surgery since it wasnt a life threatening thing atm. now if i would have waited for my hip to fracture they would have covered it
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  #40  
Old January 25th, 2010, 01:50 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Exactly!
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  #41  
Old January 25th, 2010, 01:56 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

on the flip side then tax payers would also have to pay for stuff like when someone gets a tooth knocked out in sports and goes to the er. this happened to my friend and they gave him some pain pills, a bill and said go to the dentist. Or people that go there for drug/alcohol poisoning. a lot of people go to the hospital for frivolous things, plus the er frankly has pretty poor service from what ive seen. when i was 5 i broke my arm and sat in the er for about 6 hour and they told me it was sprained and gave me a sling. my parents took me to a orthopedic doctor 2 days later and i broke my arm in 2 places.
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  #42  
Old January 25th, 2010, 02:04 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Yea, well that's American Health Care. You pay MUCH MUCH more but you don't receive the same service you would receive in Germany or, in some cases, even in Mexico.
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  #43  
Old January 25th, 2010, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Back on topic.
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  #44  
Old January 25th, 2010, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

I am concerned that this thread is delving too much into health care policy and such a debate is related to the topic at hand but is contentious enough and distant enough that I feel it better to avoid within this thread.
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  #45  
Old January 25th, 2010, 02:39 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

Like I said, anything else about Health Care, open another thread. I'll be sure to participate in it.
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  #46  
Old January 25th, 2010, 03:44 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

i am definitely happy with Bush not being in office. i like obamas style but feel that his strategy must change. he needs to go back to the FDR style of trying to make deals but standing on the principles of community and business control. But it is true Bush was one off centered president. Now on the economy despite our struggles we were blessed to have a lawyer minded man restructure the markets and give confidence again. He did a great job on the markets, but sadly as young people go off to fight war the fat cats won't even sacrifice a few million dollars for themselves. Oh weren't they screaming about patriotism yesterday when it meant the avg american supporting war?
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  #47  
Old January 25th, 2010, 03:45 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

sorry I just saw everyone is frustrated with off topic. My bad dog.
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  #48  
Old January 25th, 2010, 03:49 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

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  #49  
Old January 25th, 2010, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

For what it's worth, a few months back everyone was panicked that the new regs were going to ban all moassel. The law came and not a thing has changed.

This looks like another one of those things that might affect us, but most likely will not, even if it passes. It's good to be aware of what's going on, but it seems like a lot of crying wolf at this point.
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  #50  
Old January 25th, 2010, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Proposed Bill to Raise Federal Tax on Pipe Tobacco

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Originally Posted by Coyotero View Post
For what it's worth, a few months back everyone was panicked that the new regs were going to ban all moassel. The law came and not a thing has changed.

This looks like another one of those things that might affect us, but most likely will not, even if it passes. It's good to be aware of what's going on, but it seems like a lot of crying wolf at this point.
No, the flavor ban targetted cigarettes which is why it did not ban moassel nor was it ever going to. The only part that did affect hookahs was the FDA now being the regulating authority for tobacco.

This proposal however directly impacts moassel.
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