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At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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  #26  
Old February 13th, 2010, 12:25 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

smoke the KM and then ask the mods to delete this thread
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  #27  
Old February 13th, 2010, 01:17 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

I still think the quality aspect is important. Hell, I could own a pinto but if it drives like a Ferrari. . . . . . still looks like a pinto, lol.
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  #28  
Old February 13th, 2010, 01:19 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Yeah man looks good nice setup!
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  #29  
Old February 13th, 2010, 02:00 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Hmmm... Both of my Kms have similar solder marks.. But not dents.. Oh and the solder isn't nickel plated.. I think they plate the parts before assembly. It looks iffy... I guess if your really picky about cosmetic condition then call up john, but if not. I'm sure it'll smoke as well as any other
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  #30  
Old February 13th, 2010, 02:57 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

yeah the dents would piss me off to, but i bet you is smokes like a champ. and on the other hand you didnt by it for a show piece you bought it for the quality of the smoke.
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  #31  
Old February 13th, 2010, 08:35 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeags777 View Post
smoke the KM and then ask the mods to delete this thread
eh?... what's that supposed to mean?

Yes, we all chose a KM because of quality of smoke, but we chose that specific KM because of the way it looked, you're also paying for the way it looks too. So I think he should be happy with it's look as well.
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  #32  
Old February 13th, 2010, 09:47 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
Ok so I gave in and kept it. And my god does it smoke awesome! I so can tell the difference and the vortex bowl is frigging awesome as well!
what are you drinking in that picture it looks like something awesome. i cant tell the bottle is facing the other way. also that vase looks ballin. personally if i got something like that id ask for free return shipping and never order from them again. my km looks like someone hit it with a grinder on the top of the hose port. you cant see it with out looking for it but its there. overall from a distance it looks pretty decent but then again its a picture
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  #33  
Old February 13th, 2010, 10:04 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

I had the same issues with my KM stem when I got it. It looked like someone kicked it around the shop floor before they packed it. Then I fired it up. Dead issue!
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  #34  
Old February 13th, 2010, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Hey, Mya's are not crappy hookahs, and they're chinese. As for tool marks, like everyone said before they are handmade, probably on a production line. It's hard to get perfection, but KMs do set a standard in the hookah industry alone.
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  #35  
Old February 13th, 2010, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

That's the problem. The rig that Drmalika ordered has sloppy welds that come from people more concerned about making quantity than quality. The dings and dents that are the result of careless handling.
In order to up production, they've apparently thrown quality control out the window.
How well it smokes only goes so far. If that's all I cared about, I could build my own. As it is, if I'm going to pay big bucks for a pipe, it better look as good as it smokes.
KM better watch out. If they keep this up it'll end up biting them in the ass.
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  #36  
Old February 13th, 2010, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

I'm the same way when it comes to buying something. Whenever I buy something I make sure it has no rips, dings, dents. I'll look through the stack of whatever it is until I find a mint one. For some reason when I ordered my Nammor though, I liked being able to see the welds, and the one ding I have in it. To me, it means someone put work into it, not just some machine that puts 100's of these out a day. I can see how the dents would kinda bother you though.

Last edited by kurlz; February 13th, 2010 at 01:19 PM.
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  #37  
Old February 13th, 2010, 01:21 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

True. If I pay that much for a hookah, it better look damn good and have minimal mistakes on it. Sure, it smokes well, but such things as dents and sloppy welding marks are unacceptable.
Like Uglybiker said, it's supposed to be quality over quantity with these pipes, not the other way around.
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  #38  
Old February 13th, 2010, 01:24 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

I've been concerned with these issues as well. I even ask my importers about it all the time, the response I gave DRMALIKIA was straight from one importer and I get that from others as well. It's an answer that is not satisfying in anyways "output is so much that they can't keep up with quality control, etc" Yes, it's a normal part of any business' growing pains, but these come from a company in Egypt, not in an ISO2000 (not sure of the proper referance) factory, where if they get too big they just need to get a bigger location and hire more people. Remember, this is the middle east, not the US. They treat their employees like crap, well, more like slaves, (not trying to insult anyone here, but if you are from Egypt, or anywhere in the ME you know it has validity) They don't have the means to expand, nor do the owners want too. They will be happy to take in more orders due to demand, collect the money and output anything the importer/wholeslers/retailers/consumers will accept. But expand, improve employee morale, use their increased revenues to make improvements.....i doubt it.
You can argue that the consumer will stop buying and this will affect KM's performance...yea, i doubt this will happen, and they know that.
All in all the pipe will smoke great, the bowl is unacceptable and broke in shipping as I get a lot of those too and just replace them with new ones. DrM will be getting a new one for sure.
I hope this kind of helps explain, even though it's not the happy ending everyone would want.
DrM, lets keep in touch.
Thanks
John
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  #39  
Old February 13th, 2010, 02:38 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

just smoke your chinese and give your "poorly made" KM to me :P
or rather, to whordehey lol, he needs a hookah
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  #40  
Old February 13th, 2010, 03:19 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
Three weeks ago I bought what I felt was an overpriced Chinese hookah that was of poor quality in my opinion. So I did my homework on these forums, reviewed vendors and found Hookah John's and a KM Pearl Red. I have been so excited this week for Friday to arrive when my new toy was patiently waiting at my front door. I unpacked my ******* Hookah Coals, my new tongs, my two new Narbisch Hoses (v1 & v3), the vase (fricking awesome) and then the stem. Holy crap, the stem looks like shit.

The closest I can compare the stem to looking like a plumber soldiered it together and then dropped it on the floor several times. Not to mention he forgot to nickel coat the seams where the welds/soldier are and the splattered soldier. It looks used, beat up, and something I could have made by hand myself (ok so maybe that is an exaggeration).

I need advice, honesty and some guidance since I am new to this arena. I understand hookahs are hand made but for $115 dollars I was expecting something of higher quality then my Chinese hookah. The Chinese hookah that now looks as good if not better then the KM Pearl Red quality wise (stem comparison only). Before I go complaining to Hookah John, I wanted some opinions from those that have done business with him and are current KM owners. Am I asking for too much based on the pictures below? I am just really disappointed and was expecting more quality then what I received. Help!

Do not get me wrong, John hooked me up with a free hose (Narbisch v1 with the possible leakage problems) and took the time to call me and review my order.
You're probably not going to like what I have to say but if you're unhappy with that stem because of what was pictured, don't buy Egyptian or Syrian anymore. They look like they're soldered because they are soldered. There is no nickel plating on the Caramana. It's stainless steel. These things are pumped out for little money, packed as tightly as possible into containers, and shipped across the world. The price you are paying is to keep that chain alive. If you are unhappy with that quality for the price you are paying, feel free to fly over there yourself to cut the cost of the service of bringing them over and making them available to you. Keep in mind that not every country out there shares the same business principles or perception of quality that exist here. Unfortunately this industry is based on cheap products and I don't mean KMs or other similarly priced hookahs. There is a reason why nobody stateside manufactures these things.

The good news is you're in good hands. John has a reputation for doing whatever he can to make his customers happy, but at the same time try to understand that there's only so much he can do.

Last edited by foibled; February 13th, 2010 at 03:22 PM.
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  #41  
Old February 13th, 2010, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

KMs may not look as good as Chinese rigs in some cases because they are handmade but trust me the quality of KMs is far better. Chinese ones with the screw on downstem will eventually break and the common chamber will eventually fail on you whereas you will find the KMs to be more durable and will smoke alot better.

Having said that by the sound of it an AF hookah would have suited you better, excellent quality, design, looks, more durable than a KM and still smokes just as good. I would put it down to experience and next time go for a Syrian, preferably AF because they gave a traditional chamber.
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  #42  
Old February 13th, 2010, 03:40 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Luv2Smoke View Post
Having said that by the sound of it an AF hookah would have suited you better, excellent quality, design, looks, more durable than a KM and still smokes just as good. I would put it down to experience and next time go for a Syrian, preferably AF because they gave a traditional chamber.
Sorry but this is not true. Looks is a matter of opinion and they are constructed using the same methods. Dings, nicks, scratches, and sloppy soldering are common among AFs also, the former probably even more so because AFs are plated. AFs are more restrictive than KMs. They can also suffer from quality issues like two piece stem tubes seamed together and the hose tubes are built from multiple pieces with internal constrictions. I have yet to have seen either case in the many of KMs I've examined. KMs are traditional chambers.
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  #43  
Old February 13th, 2010, 04:11 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Those last Pics that were posted didnt look that bad. I mean really, I cant see that it was too tore up. There was one bad ding under the coal tray. The bowl was the real issue that I saw. it was chipped up pretty bad, but hes got a good vortex bowel and his clay one is relegated back to back up anyway.

And why should this thread be take down !?!?!
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  #44  
Old February 13th, 2010, 04:15 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Madwolf View Post

And why should this thread be take down !?!?!
I think he meant it more as a joke. Suggesting that KMs smoke so well anyway the cosmetic problems are a non-issue, well at least that what i thought he meant.
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  #45  
Old February 13th, 2010, 04:26 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Thanks John, I appreciate the honesty.

I appreciate everyone's input here as it has cleared the air and confirmed my reservations/thoughts. Is their an alternative quality crafted manufacturer that is on the higher end of the Hookah spectrum that can deliver a great smoke? I will probably wait a while before my next hookah purchase but, it does not hurt to look and keep the next toy on the radar screen. I just want to have a center piece for my new office that will bring together the other elements (Stealth Black Walls, Blood Red Trim, Red Oak Cherry Stained Hardwood Floors, wrap around L shaped desk Dark Walnut Brown). Sorry not trying to sound like a fu fu decorator, lol!
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  #46  
Old February 13th, 2010, 04:35 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Another hookah that smokes very well and looks good is Magdy Zidan or MZ as we all know it. It doesnt get much support as a hookah for some reason, but I have several and they are beautiful hookahs that smoke wonderfully. Maybe you might want to check them out DR.M
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  #47  
Old February 13th, 2010, 04:53 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

John will take care of you, he's one of the best!

I just unpacked 24 of these hookahs down at our lounge to put into use, and didn't find a single dent, scratch, or chip. Solder work is on par with recent KM's. Paint on base is marginally ok. Ironic when the much maligned look alikes have better quality control then the models they're based on.

John's absolutely right about the prevailing business model used in modern manufacturing in the Middle East. It can be pretty brutal, although not too many Egyptians citizens are working in those Egyptian factories. The Middle East is the only place I know of where when you tell a manufacturer that you want to buy large quantities at wholesale, they try to raise the price! (They feel they have a right to share in your expanded profits.)
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  #48  
Old February 13th, 2010, 05:43 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

in the hookah world, "egyptian quality" = shit, i feel you pain, i think my km is not worth the 140 i paid by a long shot, the glass is so bad that if i made something with the same issues no gallery would even talk to me

honestly i dont think i will ever buy a km again, i would rather just make one, granted it would take me weeks and the materials alone would cost a boat load but i would be the only one to blame for bad joins, wonky glass, etc

-matt
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  #49  
Old February 13th, 2010, 06:08 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
i would rather just make one, granted it would take me weeks and the materials alone would cost a boat load but i would be the only one to blame for bad joins, wonky glass, etc

-matt
Ha ha ha, too funny! I can picture it now, you in your basement cussing up a storm, buffing away at a block of steel.

Something I was thinking as well is we have an awesome Renaissance fair here in Minneapolis and there are two or three glass blowers there. Might be worth while to ask if they can make something by hand and specifications for the traditional stem size. Would be pretty bad ass.
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  #50  
Old February 13th, 2010, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
Ha ha ha, too funny! I can picture it now, you in your basement cussing up a storm, buffing away at a block of steel.

Something I was thinking as well is we have an awesome Renaissance fair here in Minneapolis and there are two or three glass blowers there. Might be worth while to ask if they can make something by hand and specifications for the traditional stem size. Would be pretty bad ass.
well im getting a degree in "crafts/material studies" (art) concentrating in glass and metals so i would be forming all the parts of the stem by hand, silver soldering them all together, etc etc.

as to getting a glass blower to make something for you like that, getting exacts is hard in glass blowing, even for a good glass blower and then any decent glass blower is going to charge you a good amount (a quality one off glass vase is going to probably cost over 100 bucks easy)

-matt
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