Home User CP Browse Members Calendar Register Today!  
Get New posts Faq / Help? Community Menu
   

Go Back   Hookah Pro - Hookah Forum > Hookah Stuff > Hookah Discussion

Hookah Discussion General discussion related to hookah ...

At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Hookah Discussion

Reply Share
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old February 13th, 2010, 06:31 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
in the hookah world, "egyptian quality" = shit, i feel you pain, i think my km is not worth the 140 i paid by a long shot, the glass is so bad that if i made something with the same issues no gallery would even talk to me

honestly i dont think i will ever buy a km again, i would rather just make one, granted it would take me weeks and the materials alone would cost a boat load but i would be the only one to blame for bad joins, wonky glass, etc

-matt
Egyptian quality = shit? That is news to me and a whole lot of people that buy KMs and other Egyptian brands. All of my Egyptian narghiles are quite good both functionally and aesthetically. I own some KMs, a couple of generic Egyptians, some MZs and I used to own an El Ashrey and they were all somewhere between very nice to perfect. I wonder why you think that a vase suitable for display in a gallery will be found on a rig that costs 140USD? As a practical matter custom made vases by themselves cost more then that. I am sure that KM (and every other Egyptian maker) produces some stuff that has defects and doesn't look as nice I would ideally want but to decide that what Egypt makes is shit because you didn't get a vase you'd want to display in a gallery or because someone like the OP is unhappy seems unreasonable to me.
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old February 13th, 2010, 06:34 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
well im getting a degree in "crafts/material studies" (art) concentrating in glass and metals so i would be forming all the parts of the stem by hand, silver soldering them all together, etc etc.

as to getting a glass blower to make something for you like that, getting exacts is hard in glass blowing, even for a good glass blower and then any decent glass blower is going to charge you a good amount (a quality one off glass vase is going to probably cost over 100 bucks easy)

-matt
So if the vase that you can apparently make will cost over 100USD by itself I am at a loss as to why you think that you can buy whole narghile that will meet your standards as an artisan for 140USD?
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old February 13th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2Smoke View Post
KMs may not look as good as Chinese rigs in some cases because they are handmade but trust me the quality of KMs is far better. Chinese ones with the screw on downstem will eventually break and the common chamber will eventually fail on you whereas you will find the KMs to be more durable and will smoke alot better.

Having said that by the sound of it an AF hookah would have suited you better, excellent quality, design, looks, more durable than a KM and still smokes just as good. I would put it down to experience and next time go for a Syrian, preferably AF because they gave a traditional chamber.
Every Chinese rig I ever owned (which is literally a couple of hundred since I owned to own a cafe) fell apart in under a year and usually they had massive problems with functionality like bent down tubes/down tubes that didn't thread/valves that didn't work and they all rusted in no time. I bought Myas exclusively since they were supposedly better then typical Chinese rigs.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old February 13th, 2010, 06:44 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foibled View Post
Sorry but this is not true. Looks is a matter of opinion and they are constructed using the same methods. Dings, nicks, scratches, and sloppy soldering are common among AFs also, the former probably even more so because AFs are plated. AFs are more restrictive than KMs. They can also suffer from quality issues like two piece stem tubes seamed together and the hose tubes are built from multiple pieces with internal constrictions. I have yet to have seen either case in the many of KMs I've examined. KMs are traditional chambers.
I own a lot of Syrians and none of them are soldered, none of them came with dents, none of them were plated but made out of solid brass and they all smoke in a way that can only be called fantastic. Actually Syrian style closed common cambers are traditional (in Syria, Iran and Lebanon) so from my rather extensive experience I don't agree with your assertions.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old February 13th, 2010, 06:44 PM
zeoalex
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 210
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

the KM I bought from H-S looked like hell when I unpacked it, there were a bunch of chips in the finish, places where the gold is just not there.it's frustrating, and I wish I had seen that, because i'd just as soon buy a different brand. it does look good enough and smokes amazing.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old February 13th, 2010, 06:52 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
Thanks John, I appreciate the honesty.

I appreciate everyone's input here as it has cleared the air and confirmed my reservations/thoughts. Is their an alternative quality crafted manufacturer that is on the higher end of the Hookah spectrum that can deliver a great smoke? I will probably wait a while before my next hookah purchase but, it does not hurt to look and keep the next toy on the radar screen. I just want to have a center piece for my new office that will bring together the other elements (Stealth Black Walls, Blood Red Trim, Red Oak Cherry Stained Hardwood Floors, wrap around L shaped desk Dark Walnut Brown). Sorry not trying to sound like a fu fu decorator, lol!
Well I'd say you seem to be overstating the aesthetic issues with your KM but if you're not happy I understand that. If you want gallery quality center piece for your office I suggest you be prepared to spend several times more then a 100USD. What I would suggest is that you look into some Syrian narghiles that are out on market. I have had good luck with http://www.magichookahs.com/ and have gotten a fw pieces from them as well as a lot of great service when I did have a fairly minor problem. If you want to see some of more favorite Syrians that I have been using daily for a few years now check out: http://s281.photobucket.com/home/HFlettner

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:00 PM
Pete's Avatar
Pete
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Camp Hill, PA
Posts: 261
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

I do recall John creating a thread regarding a recent batch of KM's he received that were of marginal quality. Magdy Zidan products are manufactured in Egypt, correct? If so, has their product consistency/quality/craftsmanship also taken a hit as of recently?
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:05 PM
DRMALIKIA's Avatar
DRMALIKIA
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Twin Titties
Posts: 469
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
Well I'd say you seem to be overstating the aesthetic issues with your KM but if you're not happy I understand that. If you want gallery quality center piece for your office I suggest you be prepared to spend several times more then a 100USD. What I would suggest is that you look into some Syrian narghiles that are out on market. I have had good luck with http://www.magichookahs.com/ and have gotten a fw pieces from them as well as a lot of great service when I did have a fairly minor problem. If you want to see some of more favorite Syrians that I have been using daily for a few years now check out: http://s281.photobucket.com/home/HFlettner

If you have any other questions feel free to ask.
No, I do not think I am "overstating the aesthetic issues" based on the reviews I saw I expected more. It seems to be a down the middle in this thread alone with the quality of the KM product. Some people had the same experience as I did, others had no to minor issues with their KM. Ultimately I expected that a $100 dollar hookah would be better, I stand corrected. If getting a high quality hookah means spending $700 dollars then so be it, I would be up for that if it ensured a quality product.

I guess when you buy a "New Car" you should get it with as minimal imperfections. If it was advertised as a "Used Car" then some dents, scratches are expected. Nothing against John, I am more concerned with KM and now I know better. And knowing is half the battle, lol!
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:14 PM
ChronicHookah
Status: Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South OC
Posts: 3,291
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

well, on what i hope will be a positive note, how's it treating you smoke wise?
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:14 PM
mattathayde's Avatar
mattathayde
Status: Offline
Hookah Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Richmond/Yorktown VA
Posts: 3,779
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

hajo, first a ONE OFF vase would cost well over 100, for production work, especially in a place where everything costs less we should be able to get decent production work. the quality of these vases i have seen is so bad that the glass shouldnt even be recycled in a production shop. the glass has horrid cords (uneven composition that causes thick lines due to over heating the glass when melting or an extremely bad furnace) seedy as hell (small air bubbles from, not "squeezing" the glass after it has been melted), rocks (chunks of refractory brick from the furnace or rocks from the raw sand not being sifted), stress cracks from improper annealing, and extremely uneven thicknesses. i wasnt using the example of a gallery to say the artistic quality but the pure basic craftsmanship these vases should have. all the issues are because people are lazy and want to pawn shit off on people, the majority of the issues do not cost very much if any to correct and make it much much easier for the craftsperson to work with the material

proper solder joints should be neat and cleaned up, you honestly shouldnt be able to look at them and say "o solder joint".
-matt
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:25 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
No, I do not think I am "overstating the aesthetic issues" based on the reviews I saw I expected more. It seems to be a down the middle in this thread alone with the quality of the KM product. Some people had the same experience as I did, others had no to minor issues with their KM. Ultimately I expected that a $100 dollar hookah would be better, I stand corrected. If getting a high quality hookah means spending $700 dollars then so be it, I would be up for that if it ensured a quality product.

I guess when you buy a "New Car" you should get it with as minimal imperfections. If it was advertised as a "Used Car" then some dents, scratches are expected. Nothing against John, I am more concerned with KM and now I know better. And knowing is half the battle, lol!
Well clearly you are unhappy and I get that. My KMs all are dent/defect free and give great sessions and that has been the experience that pretty much everyone i've known has had. Still, it seems that recent KM purchases have had a lot of trouble in the aesthetic side of things so sure, stay clear of KMs. What I will suggest is checking out whats around it terms of Syrian rigs. Plenty of very nice, reasonably priced narghiles from Syria are on the market and personally I prefer Syrian stuff to Egyptian. If you have any questions just ask

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:29 PM
Ignited's Avatar
Ignited
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 321
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
No, I do not think I am "overstating the aesthetic issues" based on the reviews I saw I expected more. It seems to be a down the middle in this thread alone with the quality of the KM product. Some people had the same experience as I did, others had no to minor issues with their KM. Ultimately I expected that a $100 dollar hookah would be better, I stand corrected. If getting a high quality hookah means spending $700 dollars then so be it, I would be up for that if it ensured a quality product.

I guess when you buy a "New Car" you should get it with as minimal imperfections. If it was advertised as a "Used Car" then some dents, scratches are expected. Nothing against John, I am more concerned with KM and now I know better. And knowing is half the battle, lol!
I still can't believe people are OK with dents and dings and bad craftsmanship on things they spend their money on. I'm 100% with you on your entire post, for the money you spend on these things, you would expect a pretty pristine looking pipe. Sadly it seems like the standards are low for quality and these standards have become "acceptable" amongst people who buy hookahs of 100+ range. I'm sure that more can be done to pressure the shippers to minimize the damage that these pipes see during transfers from place to place(likewise the manufacturer). Shippers will blame the manufacturer and the manufacturer will blame the shipper, honesty can't be expected when loss of business or money is at hand.
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:30 PM
DaSebsch's Avatar
DaSebsch
Status: Offline
Hookah Aficionado
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kentucky/Germany
Posts: 1,808
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

It's one thing to have welding imperfections, etc. but to have dents in it, that's just carelessness since the thing has obviously been dropped during production or transport.
__________________
"Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans win" - England striker Gary Linekar
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:33 PM
abu ronin's Avatar
abu ronin
Status: Offline
Hookah Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mpls
Posts: 4,498
Send a message via Yahoo to abu ronin
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

As John stated earlier, it's clear that as demand for Khalil Mamoon products has increased, they have chosen to push 'em out the door as oppossed to increasing production capabilities and quality control(clearly). I don't, and never have owned a KM shisha so I've never experienced the good or bad of them. I will say, having smoked from them on occasion, they have performed well. I feel Dr. malikia however. You pay top dollar for a shisha you expect at flawless product. As a fan/collector of Syrian narghile I actually enjoy some of the imperfections that come w/small shop/hand crafted products.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:39 PM
DaSebsch's Avatar
DaSebsch
Status: Offline
Hookah Aficionado
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Kentucky/Germany
Posts: 1,808
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

I have a handcrafted Egyptian pipe, but it's a no-name. Even that thing didn't come with any dings or scratches. Yea, some of the welding was 'unique', but that wasn't a problem. If it had dents in it though, I wouldn't have bought it. It only cost me 15 Euros anyways.
__________________
"Football is a simple game; 22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans win" - England striker Gary Linekar
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old February 13th, 2010, 07:50 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
hajo, first a ONE OFF vase would cost well over 100, for production work, especially in a place where everything costs less we should be able to get decent production work. the quality of these vases i have seen is so bad that the glass shouldnt even be recycled in a production shop. the glass has horrid cords (uneven composition that causes thick lines due to over heating the glass when melting or an extremely bad furnace) seedy as hell (small air bubbles from, not "squeezing" the glass after it has been melted), rocks (chunks of refractory brick from the furnace or rocks from the raw sand not being sifted), stress cracks from improper annealing, and extremely uneven thicknesses. i wasnt using the example of a gallery to say the artistic quality but the pure basic craftsmanship these vases should have. all the issues are because people are lazy and want to pawn shit off on people, the majority of the issues do not cost very much if any to correct and make it much much easier for the craftsperson to work with the material

proper solder joints should be neat and cleaned up, you honestly shouldnt be able to look at them and say "o solder joint".
-matt
Well yes I know what constitutes defects in glass production since I have had to manage a glass production line in the past. I have seen all of those problems in glass from everywhere but I don't think it's fair when so much great KM vases have satisfied so many people to deem Egyptian products as crap. Personally I have found Syrian to generally have higher quality but then with anything mass produced you can't assume that you'll get a decent product. As to joints well, my Syrians are drawn for the most part and what few points they have are well done and welded. My KMs also have well done joints.
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old February 13th, 2010, 08:00 PM
uk_shisha_king's Avatar
uk_shisha_king
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 293
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

If I were you I would have enquired more about the quality of the the KM coz when you see the pics on Johns site, im sure you dont see no the KMs with dents on. Dont get me wrong but Ive ordered from John before and his good at what he does.

Iv got 3 KMs and I know that the welding is not always good but I didnt buy any of them with dents on them and I wouldnt expecg them to have any either.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old February 13th, 2010, 08:27 PM
foibled
Status: Offline
Hookah Pro
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: OC
Posts: 541
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
I own a lot of Syrians and none of them are soldered, none of them came with dents, none of them were plated but made out of solid brass and they all smoke in a way that can only be called fantastic. Actually Syrian style closed common cambers are traditional (in Syria, Iran and Lebanon) so from my rather extensive experience I don't agree with your assertions.
Um, you've got to be kidding me. You bring up all Syrians when I was specifically talking about AFs. AF hookahs, both first and second generation, are soldered and plated. If your "extensive experience" leads you to disagree with that, then your "extensive experience" is plagued by a lack of knowledge. KMs have the same design chambers as AFs. I don't care what you want to call it, traditional, closed & tubed, whatever, they are functionally the same.

Also, if you have any of your Syrians still, please take pictures of these so called welds. There are MAJOR differences between soldering and welding. I have yet to see or hear of any hookah that is welded and not soldered, Syrian or Egyptian. Just because people incorrectly call them welds does not make them so. Anybody with any knowledge of welding and brazing can easily tell the difference.
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old February 13th, 2010, 09:55 PM
RedbullZ's Avatar
RedbullZ
Status: Offline
Hookah Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Nashville
Posts: 69
Send a message via AIM to RedbullZ
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

I got my KM today and it doesnt have any dents or dings. The welds look good. Im not sure whats up.
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old February 13th, 2010, 10:09 PM
mattathayde's Avatar
mattathayde
Status: Offline
Hookah Master
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Richmond/Yorktown VA
Posts: 3,779
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
Well yes I know what constitutes defects in glass production since I have had to manage a glass production line in the past. I have seen all of those problems in glass from everywhere but I don't think it's fair when so much great KM vases have satisfied so many people to deem Egyptian products as crap. Personally I have found Syrian to generally have higher quality but then with anything mass produced you can't assume that you'll get a decent product. As to joints well, my Syrians are drawn for the most part and what few points they have are well done and welded. My KMs also have well done joints.
well looking at the 2 KM vases i have, after seeing all the complaints around here and talking to a few vendors it seems that these defects are the norm. most people i have talked to that are "satisfied" with their bases still say they have these issues but they are not bothered by them (IMHO because they do not understand what causes said defects and how lazy/carless the production shops are that let this junk out). if you have managed a glass production line then you would understand how easy these things are to prevent and know it is not acceptable for these to get out. this idea that mass produced, hand made items mean you wont get consistency is idiotic and is way to common place here in the hookah community. since these vases are mold blown the uneven thickness is due to the gaffer not setting up their bubble well, which is just lazy, its not hard to set up a bubble to blow into a freaking mold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foibled View Post
Um, you've got to be kidding me. You bring up all Syrians when I was specifically talking about AFs. AF hookahs, both first and second generation, are soldered and plated. If your "extensive experience" leads you to disagree with that, then your "extensive experience" is plagued by a lack of knowledge. KMs have the same design chambers as AFs. I don't care what you want to call it, traditional, closed & tubed, whatever, they are functionally the same.

Also, if you have any of your Syrians still, please take pictures of these so called welds. There are MAJOR differences between soldering and welding. I have yet to see or hear of any hookah that is welded and not soldered, Syrian or Egyptian. Just because people incorrectly call them welds does not make them so. Anybody with any knowledge of welding and brazing can easily tell the difference.
i honestly dont see why one would weld brass, i see references to it on line but i dont see how it works out since the zinc will burn off when heated hot enough to melt the brass. brazing would require a lot of clean up on brass too since again the zinc burns off and you get a copper plating, most of the hookahs use cheap plumbing/low temp solder

-matt
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old February 13th, 2010, 10:16 PM
ZenSilk's Avatar
ZenSilk
Status: Offline
Hookah Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,605
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

I'll just say it...

LMFAO
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old February 13th, 2010, 10:26 PM
ChronicHookah
Status: Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South OC
Posts: 3,291
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post
I'll just say it...

LMFAO
thanks zen, someone had to.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old February 13th, 2010, 10:49 PM
gnuworldorder
Status: Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 566
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post
I'll just say it...

LMFAO
did i miss something?
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old February 13th, 2010, 10:54 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
well looking at the 2 KM vases i have, after seeing all the complaints around here and talking to a few vendors it seems that these defects are the norm. most people i have talked to that are "satisfied" with their bases still say they have these issues but they are not bothered by them (IMHO because they do not understand what causes said defects and how lazy/carless the production shops are that let this junk out). if you have managed a glass production line then you would understand how easy these things are to prevent and know it is not acceptable for these to get out. this idea that mass produced, hand made items mean you wont get consistency is idiotic and is way to common place here in the hookah community. since these vases are mold blown the uneven thickness is due to the gaffer not setting up their bubble well, which is just lazy, its not hard to set up a bubble to blow into a freaking mold.
I can't comment on the two KM vases you have. I can comment on the ones in my collection and I can comment on the 120 I bought for my cafe. In the later case they were all great but since that some was some years ago I can't comment on the quality of KM glass of current production other then what i've dealt with personally.

As my managing a glass production facility i'd say it went pretty well since it got an export accommodation for quality control.

[/quote]
i honestly dont see why one would weld brass, i see references to it on line but i dont see how it works out since the zinc will burn off when heated hot enough to melt the brass. brazing would require a lot of clean up on brass too since again the zinc burns off and you get a copper plating, most of the hookahs use cheap plumbing/low temp solder

-matt[/quote]
Well gee, in the case of Syrian crystal I got to go into work shops and see the welding take place. I didn't second guess them about why they did it the way they did it and at the time I was distracted with the drawing opperation so I didn't inquiry about the specific method used. Still, my Syrians have great looking joints and they stood up well to many years of service so that strikes me as great quality.
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old February 13th, 2010, 11:03 PM
Hajo Flettner
Status: Offline
Hookah Legend
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,746
Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foibled View Post
Um, you've got to be kidding me. You bring up all Syrians when I was specifically talking about AFs. AF hookahs, both first and second generation, are soldered and plated. If your "extensive experience" leads you to disagree with that, then your "extensive experience" is plagued by a lack of knowledge. KMs have the same design chambers as AFs. I don't care what you want to call it, traditional, closed & tubed, whatever, they are functionally the same.
Wow, I didn't specifically mention AFs but I suppose you'd rather argue about what you think I should have said rather then what I did said. That is what is referred to as a strawman fallacy since my comment you cited was in response to a post you made in which you made a generalized criticism of Syrian narghiles. If actually want to respond to what I say I suggest you read what I said, take the text in context and respond according accordingly. Also, for future reference snide comments about my experience tend to make for a less then cordial exchange so I'd advise against it.

Last edited by Hajo Flettner; February 13th, 2010 at 11:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply Share
Share with your friends on facebook

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MONEY REFUND of MISSING ITEM WestSide96 Hookah Discussion 8 January 21st, 2010 04:27 PM
Quality of CH coals? Dakins Hookah Discussion 29 October 6th, 2009 04:30 PM
Missing in action! yoyoyo Hookah Discussion 16 February 20th, 2009 09:43 AM
Missing? Hajo Flettner Hookah Discussion 9 December 24th, 2008 04:37 PM
Members missing in action ChronicHookah Hookah Discussion 45 August 5th, 2008 06:58 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:13 PM.

Skin Design By vBSkinworks



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 - 2012, Hookah Pro Inc.