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At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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  #76  
Old February 13th, 2010, 11:27 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
I can't comment on the two KM vases you have. I can comment on the ones in my collection and I can comment on the 120 I bought for my cafe. In the later case they were all great but since that some was some years ago I can't comment on the quality of KM glass of current production other then what i've dealt with personally.

As my managing a glass production facility i'd say it went pretty well since it got an export accommodation for quality control.
i honestly dont see why one would weld brass, i see references to it on line but i dont see how it works out since the zinc will burn off when heated hot enough to melt the brass. brazing would require a lot of clean up on brass too since again the zinc burns off and you get a copper plating, most of the hookahs use cheap plumbing/low temp solder

-matt[/quote]
Well gee, in the case of Syrian crystal I got to go into work shops and see the welding take place. I didn't second guess them about why they did it the way they did it and at the time I was distracted with the drawing opperation so I didn't inquiry about the specific method used. Still, my Syrians have great looking joints and they stood up well to many years of service so that strikes me as great quality.[/QUOTE]

so you say you had great quality control and all your vases are great yet you can't get quality products from hand made items. again if you honestly had any hand in a glass shop you would know there is no excuse for the issues seen in these vases. as to the welding, i still am very very doubtful due to the excessive clean up that would be needed along with the properties of brass. electric welding is a more probable technique but i doubt the cost effectiveness of tig welding in these shops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
Wow, I didn't specifically mention AFs but I suppose you'd rather argue about what you think I should have said rather then what I did said. That is what is referred to as a strawman fallacy since my comment you cited was in response to a post you made in which you made a generalized criticism of Syrian narghiles. If actually want to respond to what I say I suggest you read what I said, take the text in context and respond according accordingly. Also, for future reference snide comments about my experience tend to make for a less then cordial exchange so I'd advise against it.
and are you you serious? you have made so many snide and condescending comments to members here about peoples experiences and opinions yet get all butt hurt when you feel even the slightest bit of aggression
-matt
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  #77  
Old February 13th, 2010, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
Wow, I didn't specifically mention AFs but I suppose you'd rather argue about what you think I should have said rather then what I did said. That is what is referred to as a strawman fallacy since my comment you cited was in response to a post you made in which you made a generalized criticism of Syrian narghiles. If actually want to respond to what I say I suggest you read what I said, take the text in context and respond according accordingly. Also, for future reference snide comments about my experience tend to make for a less then cordial exchange so I'd advise against it.
Here, I'll make this easier for you and quote what I had posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by foibled View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luv2Smoke View Post
Having said that by the sound of it an AF hookah would have suited you better, excellent quality, design, looks, more durable than a KM and still smokes just as good. I would put it down to experience and next time go for a Syrian, preferably AF because they gave a traditional chamber.
Sorry but this is not true. Looks is a matter of opinion and they are constructed using the same methods. Dings, nicks, scratches, and sloppy soldering are common among AFs also, the former probably even more so because AFs are plated. AFs are more restrictive than KMs. They can also suffer from quality issues like two piece stem tubes seamed together and the hose tubes are built from multiple pieces with internal constrictions. I have yet to have seen either case in the many of KMs I've examined. KMs are traditional chambers.
So, in your own words, "If [you] actually want to respond to what I say I suggest you read what I said, take the text in context and respond accordingly".

Last edited by foibled; February 13th, 2010 at 11:30 PM.
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  #78  
Old February 13th, 2010, 11:35 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

This thread needs to get back on track. Its changing from what the OP originally posted.
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  #79  
Old February 13th, 2010, 11:57 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by foibled View Post
Here, I'll make this easier for you and quote what I had posted.



So, in your own words, "If [you] actually want to respond to what I say I suggest you read what I said, take the text in context and respond accordingly".
You are correct. I misunderstood what you are saying and I stand corrected.

I do however feel that Syrian narghiles have, on the whole, a very high quality build and that the original poster would do well to consider them since he is unhappy with KMs. I do own an AF and I can't find anything wrong with it's construction cosmetically and it still perfoms great after several years of regular use.
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  #80  
Old February 14th, 2010, 02:34 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Nyxxie View Post
eh?... what's that supposed to mean?

Yes, we all chose a KM because of quality of smoke, but we chose that specific KM because of the way it looked, you're also paying for the way it looks too. So I think he should be happy with it's look as well.
pretty simple

smoke the km, love it, then delete the thread about the poor quality because it won't matter at that point...
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  #81  
Old February 14th, 2010, 03:20 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by yeags777 View Post
pretty simple

smoke the km, love it, then delete the thread about the poor quality because it won't matter at that point...
I don't see why deleting the thread is necessary or good. It contains many people's opinions about the quality of KM's regarding the handmade nature of the pipe. Its not outright slanderous, simply his opinion and perception as well as others. I think that deleting a thread like this would simply be a disservice to the community. He decided to smoke it and has attested to the quality of his experience but that does not make his views of this aspect any less valid. Discussions like this are what having a forum is about, and his opinion might be valuable to others in the future who are wondering about the aesthetics and craftsmanship behind these pipes.
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  #82  
Old February 14th, 2010, 03:45 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CypherEnigma View Post
I don't see why deleting the thread is necessary or good. It contains many people's opinions about the quality of KM's regarding the handmade nature of the pipe. Its not outright slanderous, simply his opinion and perception as well as others. I think that deleting a thread like this would simply be a disservice to the community. He decided to smoke it and has attested to the quality of his experience but that does not make his views of this aspect any less valid. Discussions like this are what having a forum is about, and his opinion might be valuable to others in the future who are wondering about the aesthetics and craftsmanship behind these pipes.
I'm fairly confident that Yeags was simply implying that once he smokes from the pipe, he won't be as concerned about the production flaws.
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  #83  
Old February 14th, 2010, 11:29 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Time to drop my stones on this whole matter.

1) KM's do have imperfections, like all egyptian hookahs SEEM to have. If it smokes well, smoke it. If it doesn't, talk to the vendor. I'm sure that they will find it in their hearts to see what they can do for you (unless you are dealing with someone that isn't reputable).

2) AF hookahs have imperfections too. I own a light 40" and it leans to the left. Sure, the glass has some seeds as well, but that thing smokes like a dream. I love it.

3) Enough with the snide and sniping comments- I'm sick to fucking death of HP members getting pissed off and running their mouths off at another member. This isn't high school, grow the fuck up now!

/ragedump

Now, with that being said, I'm in no way trying to mark any member's credibility. Hajo, Foibled, mattathayde, let's put our differences aside and smoke our respective pipes and be happy? This negative energy I'm getting from the three of you is really getting to me. Now, I know there are gonna be a million comments after my post like "STFU d00d u r a n00b" or "he started it...etc..." But I don't care. Just please smoke in peace and relax?

-Fat Bastard from KCMO.
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  #84  
Old February 14th, 2010, 11:43 AM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shushyne4np2ne View Post
Time to drop my stones on this whole matter.

1) KM's do have imperfections, like all egyptian hookahs SEEM to have. If it smokes well, smoke it. If it doesn't, talk to the vendor. I'm sure that they will find it in their hearts to see what they can do for you (unless you are dealing with someone that isn't reputable).

2) AF hookahs have imperfections too. I own a light 40" and it leans to the left. Sure, the glass has some seeds as well, but that thing smokes like a dream. I love it.

3) Enough with the snide and sniping comments- I'm sick to fucking death of HP members getting pissed off and running their mouths off at another member. This isn't high school, grow the fuck up now!

/ragedump

Now, with that being said, I'm in no way trying to mark any member's credibility. Hajo, Foibled, mattathayde, let's put our differences aside and smoke our respective pipes and be happy? This negative energy I'm getting from the three of you is really getting to me. Now, I know there are gonna be a million comments after my post like "STFU d00d u r a n00b" or "he started it...etc..." But I don't care. Just please smoke in peace and relax?

-Fat Bastard from KCMO.
We appreciate your plea for harmony, however your profanity laced tirade does little to invoke a sense of civility into the debate if that was your intent. Our staff is pretty well suited to handle such issues as we see fit. Perhaps in the future if you have an issue w/the tenor of a debate and aren't willing or able to address it w/out losing your cool as well, you should simply report it for moderation.
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  #85  
Old February 14th, 2010, 01:28 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shushyne4np2ne View Post
Time to drop my stones on this whole matter.

1) KM's do have imperfections, like all egyptian hookahs SEEM to have. If it smokes well, smoke it. If it doesn't, talk to the vendor. I'm sure that they will find it in their hearts to see what they can do for you (unless you are dealing with someone that isn't reputable).

2) AF hookahs have imperfections too. I own a light 40" and it leans to the left. Sure, the glass has some seeds as well, but that thing smokes like a dream. I love it.

3) Enough with the snide and sniping comments- I'm sick to fucking death of HP members getting pissed off and running their mouths off at another member. This isn't high school, grow the fuck up now!

/ragedump

Now, with that being said, I'm in no way trying to mark any member's credibility. Hajo, Foibled, mattathayde, let's put our differences aside and smoke our respective pipes and be happy? This negative energy I'm getting from the three of you is really getting to me. Now, I know there are gonna be a million comments after my post like "STFU d00d u r a n00b" or "he started it...etc..." But I don't care. Just please smoke in peace and relax?

-Fat Bastard from KCMO.
The fact is that you pay a huge amount of money for something and you're not only paying for how well it smokes, you're also paying for the looks. You wouldn't wanna buy a car that looks like crap but has a Ferrari motor in it, especially when you're paying the Ferrari price.
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  #86  
Old February 14th, 2010, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by yeags777 View Post
pretty simple

smoke the km, love it, then delete the thread about the poor quality because it won't matter at that point...
So do you take the same attitude to women? She is great in bed but won an ugly contest? So just ignore that she is ugly. Really? LOL!

We are talking about two qualities here, quality of smoke and quality of craftsmanship. To answer John's question, yes it smokes great. And if that was all that mattered to me, I would be a satisfied dude. However, I did not just buy my Pontiac G8GT because it had an L76 363 HP engine, I bought it for the entire package to include the way it looks. The same can be said for the Hookah I just spent my hard earned money on.

Maybe this is more of your thought process:
“Quality in a product or service is not what the supplier puts in. It is what the customer gets out and is willing to pay for. A product is not quality because it is hard to make and costs a lot of money, as manufacturers typically believe. This is incompetence. Customers pay only for what is of use to them and gives them value. Nothing else constitutes quality.”

Peter F. Drucker

I however have this opinion on the matter:
“It is the quality of our work which will please God and not the quantity.”

Mahatma Ghandi

You cannot argue with Ghandi man.
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  #87  
Old February 14th, 2010, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu ronin View Post
We appreciate your plea for harmony, however your profanity laced tirade does little to invoke a sense of civility into the debate if that was your intent. Our staff is pretty well suited to handle such issues as we see fit. Perhaps in the future if you have an issue w/the tenor of a debate and aren't willing or able to address it w/out losing your cool as well, you should simply report it for moderation.
Holy Eloquence of speech! lol Yes healthy debate versus personal attacks are appreciated. This thread has come a long way since Friday and everyone's input is appreciated as I think this has really turned into a great debate about product quality.
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  #88  
Old February 14th, 2010, 02:11 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaSebsch View Post
The fact is that you pay a huge amount of money for something and you're not only paying for how well it smokes, you're also paying for the looks. You wouldn't wanna buy a car that looks like crap but has a Ferrari motor in it, especially when you're paying the Ferrari price.
I agree, especially in this case where the company itself is seemingly aware of declining/spotty quality. If you know you're no longer delivering the product on which you've built your strong reputation and large customer base, something has to change. Either manufacture in quantities you're capable of or continue to build a lesser product, but charge a reduced price (never happen). It might seem KM's approach is to produce as many hookahs as they can with a blatant disregard for quality control, all while hoping (perhaps assumption) their history/reputation will keep the customers coming. Shrewd.
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  #89  
Old February 14th, 2010, 05:23 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
I agree, especially in this case where the company itself is seemingly aware of declining/spotty quality. If you know you're no longer delivering the product on which you've built your strong reputation and large customer base, something has to change. Either manufacture in quantities you're capable of or continue to build a lesser product, but charge a reduced price (never happen). It might seem KM's approach is to produce as many hookahs as they can with a blatant disregard for quality control, all while hoping (perhaps assumption) their history/reputation will keep the customers coming. Shrewd.
1) I want to apologize to mods, Hajo, Foibled and our OP for my earlier post. It was early and I hadn't had my coffee yet.

2) KM does have a great reputation in the states as of now, with the hookah trend blowing up like crazy now. I'm not saying that KM should put out these subpar quality pipes just to meet demand. Things that are of good quality should be made in only the quantity that the manufacturer thinks they can handle without sacrificing quality control. I am no expert on construction of pipes or anything of that sort, but I do think something needs to be done when it comes to the problems with these pipes. Now, since a lot of us are American and cannot directly contact the factory easily and our international members may not have the power to sway the company judgement, we will likely do 1 of 2 things

Smoke our KMs until they reach a point of unuseability

or

switch to a different manufacturer with solid construction and aesthetic quality control.


I for one, enjoy my KM pieces. I can understand what OP and others that have had it with KM's shoddy problems here and there are getting at. I did not mean to cause any sort of angry or negative discussion here. Keep smoking and be happy folks!
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  #90  
Old February 16th, 2010, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: At Wits End with quality, Am I missing something?

jesus... some of you guys are taking what I said way too seriously.

I'm being facetious/silly

Last edited by yeags777; February 16th, 2010 at 12:23 PM.
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