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Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

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  #1  
Old February 17th, 2010, 10:14 AM
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Default Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

I was just wondering but has anybody tried filling the vase with carbonated water while smoking the soda flavors? Just a random thought last night while I was smoking.
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  #2  
Old February 17th, 2010, 11:01 AM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

I haven't tried carbonated water but I've tried it with tonic. It changes the flavor. I like it, my friends don't. It doesn't really make it "non-flat" though :/
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  #3  
Old February 17th, 2010, 11:28 AM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

I did this with fantasia cherry cola and cherry coke and I think I'd rather have had the soda be flat...I can't really explain the sensation but it definitely took away from the flavor/smoke texture.
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  #4  
Old February 17th, 2010, 12:06 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

grape soda,
it was good, better when carbonated

made tons of bubbles so if ur vase is small u may have it go up the hose
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  #5  
Old February 17th, 2010, 12:11 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

I'm not a fan of the cola because of the flatness that I've heard it has. Perhaps if someone tries this out, I'd love to see vid review on it
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  #6  
Old February 17th, 2010, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

This is a terrible idea. Anything with carbonation should be avoided at all costs.

I repeat NEVER USE ANYTHING CARBONATED IN THE BASE

If you use carbonated soda, water or whatever in the base you are going to be inhaling all the CO2 that is released by the liquid. This can result in CO2 poisoning. You may not notice it at first but this is a very dangerous condition that can result in lots of unpleasant stuff, the most severe of which can be death.

"
Basic Information about Concentrations of CO2 in Air [LIST][*]1,000,000 ppm of a gas = 100 % concentration of the gas, and 10,000 ppm of a gas in air = a 1% concentration.[*]At 1% concentration of carbon dioxide CO2 (10,000 parts per million or ppm) and under continuous exposure at that level, such as in an auditorium filled with occupants and poor fresh air ventilation, some occupants are likely to feel drowsy.[*]The concentration of carbon dioxide must be over about 2% (20,000 ppm) before most people are aware of its presence unless the odor of an associated material (auto exhaust or fermenting yeast, for instance) is present at lower concentrations.[*]Above 2%, carbon dioxide may cause a feeling of heaviness in the chest and/or more frequent and deeper respirations.[*]If exposure continues at that level for several hours, minimal "acidosis" (an acid condition of the blood) may occur but more frequently is absent.[*]Breathing rate doubles at 3% CO2 and is four times the normal rate at 5% CO2.[*]Toxic levels of carbon dioxide: at levels above 5%, concentration CO2 is directly toxic. [At lower levels we may be seeing effects of a reduction in the relative amount of oxygen rather than direct toxicity of CO2.][/LIST] Symptoms of high or prolonged exposure to carbon dioxide include headache, increased heart rate, dizziness, fatigue, rapid breathing, visual and hearing dysfunctions. Exposure to higher levels may cause unconsciousness or death within minutes of exposure."


When inhaling from a hose directly attached to a vase filled with carbonated liquid you are far exceeding 5% concentration. And that is not even getting into the damage that oxygen deprivation can do.


Please head this warning. If you feel the need to put cola or soda in the base shake it to remove all the CO2 first.
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  #7  
Old February 17th, 2010, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

@kalutika, oh man, thanks for the heads up!
Guess I won't be using any soda again, eh?
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  #8  
Old February 17th, 2010, 01:00 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

Woah, good thing you posted that!
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  #9  
Old February 17th, 2010, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

my friend would do it, you could notice a difference but it wasnt huge and of course didnt last the whole session

-matt
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  #10  
Old February 17th, 2010, 03:34 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

sux
cuz flat soda isnt quite as good

i shld make a vid with it and good combos,
grape and grape soda,
hawaiin punch
orange soda
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  #11  
Old February 17th, 2010, 03:48 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

See i wondering if there was some kind of health hazard with it. I new CO2 was involved but wasnt to sure if inhaling it while smoking would be bad. Anyways glad you shot it down kalutika!
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  #12  
Old February 17th, 2010, 03:59 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

and that is the reason why I love this community, smoking hookah and savin lives
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  #13  
Old February 17th, 2010, 05:12 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

a friend of mine literally exploded from trying that
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  #14  
Old February 17th, 2010, 05:14 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

i dont know if that would work i think it would probably foam up
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  #15  
Old February 17th, 2010, 05:17 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
This is a terrible idea. Anything with carbonation should be avoided at all costs.

I repeat NEVER USE ANYTHING CARBONATED IN THE BASE

If you use carbonated soda, water or whatever in the base you are going to be inhaling all the CO2 that is released by the liquid. This can result in CO2 poisoning. You may not notice it at first but this is a very dangerous condition that can result in lots of unpleasant stuff, the most severe of which can be death.


"
Basic Information about Concentrations of CO2 in Air [LIST][*]1,000,000 ppm of a gas = 100 % concentration of the gas, and 10,000 ppm of a gas in air = a 1% concentration.[*]At 1% concentration of carbon dioxide CO2 (10,000 parts per million or ppm) and under continuous exposure at that level, such as in an auditorium filled with occupants and poor fresh air ventilation, some occupants are likely to feel drowsy.[*]The concentration of carbon dioxide must be over about 2% (20,000 ppm) before most people are aware of its presence unless the odor of an associated material (auto exhaust or fermenting yeast, for instance) is present at lower concentrations.[*]Above 2%, carbon dioxide may cause a feeling of heaviness in the chest and/or more frequent and deeper respirations.[*]If exposure continues at that level for several hours, minimal "acidosis" (an acid condition of the blood) may occur but more frequently is absent.[*]Breathing rate doubles at 3% CO2 and is four times the normal rate at 5% CO2.[*]Toxic levels of carbon dioxide: at levels above 5%, concentration CO2 is directly toxic. [At lower levels we may be seeing effects of a reduction in the relative amount of oxygen rather than direct toxicity of CO2.][/LIST]Symptoms of high or prolonged exposure to carbon dioxide include headache, increased heart rate, dizziness, fatigue, rapid breathing, visual and hearing dysfunctions. Exposure to higher levels may cause unconsciousness or death within minutes of exposure."


When inhaling from a hose directly attached to a vase filled with carbonated liquid you are far exceeding 5% concentration. And that is not even getting into the damage that oxygen deprivation can do.


Please head this warning. If you feel the need to put cola or soda in the base shake it to remove all the CO2 first.
wow never thought of it this way
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  #16  
Old February 17th, 2010, 05:34 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

Just watching out for all my friends here.
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  #17  
Old February 17th, 2010, 06:03 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

Great post Kal!

Why not just match whatever flavor you're smoking with an actual drink?
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  #18  
Old February 17th, 2010, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

wait kalutika, where are you getting the info that inhaling through carbonated liquids will give 5%+. from some very rough experiments i saw .5 liters of soda held about 1 liter of co2 at room temp and ambient pressure.

im not saying for everyone to go fill a base up with soda and chain smoke but if people like the change adding a bit of carbonation in to their base water i honestly dont see how the amounts there can give a noticeable enough amount to cause issues

-matt
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  #19  
Old February 17th, 2010, 07:07 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
wait kalutika, where are you getting the info that inhaling through carbonated liquids will give 5%+. from some very rough experiments i saw .5 liters of soda held about 1 liter of co2 at room temp and ambient pressure.

im not saying for everyone to go fill a base up with soda and chain smoke but if people like the change adding a bit of carbonation in to their base water i honestly dont see how the amounts there can give a noticeable enough amount to cause issues

-matt
I am not talking about blood concentration. I am talking about PPM in inhaled gases. Are you saying that it is unreasonable to assume that more than 5% of the inhaled gases are going to be from the 1 liter of CO2 that is being released from the agitated soda?

The liquid is going to exert positive pressure as it fizzes and fill an area it is in with as much CO2 as it was holding. Eventually this will push the concentration way up as it is going to displace oxygen and eventually near 100%. If the volume of the vase is only capable of holding around a liter of airspace in a large vase (rough estimate that changes a lot based on the vase) and the average human breath is around 6 liters then you have a concentration of almost 17% in that one breath. That's really rough math based on eyeballed volumes but even getting more conservative, if the space is a half a liter (a very small space) you still have 8%. Now lets say that half of the CO2 is lost in the pour (not going to happen) even at a half liter airspace and half the CO2 you are pushing 5%. That's not even taking into account that you will be inhaling CO2 through the entire draw as it gets released from the soda with agitation.

I have not done measurements on this but it's some simple math. It's also a terrible idea. Avoid inhaling CO2. It's more toxic than you think. 5% is an astoundingly small amount. You only need to inhale 1/3 liter in one breath to peak over 5%.
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  #20  
Old February 17th, 2010, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
I am not talking about blood concentration. I am talking about PPM in inhaled gases. Are you saying that it is unreasonable to assume that more than 5% of the inhaled gases are going to be from the 1 liter of CO2 that is being released from the agitated soda?

The liquid is going to exert positive pressure as it fizzes and fill an area it is in with as much CO2 as it was holding. Eventually this will push the concentration way up as it is going to displace oxygen and eventually near 100%. If the volume of the vase is only capable of holding around a liter of airspace in a large vase (rough estimate that changes a lot based on the vase) and the average human breath is around 6 liters then you have a concentration of almost 17% in that one breath. That's really rough math based on eyeballed volumes but even getting more conservative, if the space is a half a liter (a very small space) you still have 8%. Now lets say that half of the CO2 is lost in the pour (not going to happen) even at a half liter airspace and half the CO2 you are pushing 5%. That's not even taking into account that you will be inhaling CO2 through the entire draw as it gets released from the soda with agitation.

I have not done measurements on this but it's some simple math. It's also a terrible idea. Avoid inhaling CO2. It's more toxic than you think. 5% is an astoundingly small amount. You only need to inhale 1/3 liter in one breath to peak over 5%.
again i am not suggesting filling a base fully with soda is a good idea. while i agree with your numbers there is one flaw, the carbonation takes a while to come out, even when being agitated all the CO2 will not come out in one pull. i would assume it would take a while of smoking for the co2 to fully get agitated out of suspension. also even if the concentration was high enough to cause issues you are not in an environment of that concentration so your next breath will give you good air.

again i am not saying filling a base only with soda is a good idea, i honestly think it is stupid for multiple reasons but i truly dont think adding a bit into a base will cause issues and also dont think the co2 even in a full base of soda would be given off fast enough or enough over a period of time to cause issues to a healthy individual
-matt
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  #21  
Old February 17th, 2010, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
again i am not suggesting filling a base fully with soda is a good idea. while i agree with your numbers there is one flaw, the carbonation takes a while to come out, even when being agitated all the CO2 will not come out in one pull. i would assume it would take a while of smoking for the co2 to fully get agitated out of suspension. also even if the concentration was high enough to cause issues you are not in an environment of that concentration so your next breath will give you good air.

again i am not saying filling a base only with soda is a good idea, i honestly think it is stupid for multiple reasons but i truly dont think adding a bit into a base will cause issues and also dont think the co2 even in a full base of soda would be given off fast enough or enough over a period of time to cause issues to a healthy individual
-matt
Very simply, we don't know what rate the inhalation is going to be at. Neither of us. We do know that any inhalation is bad. We do know that inhalation from a fully carbonated beverage is going to give more than 1%, which is considered toxic over time. It is more than safe to assume, based on the numbers, that the concentration can easily reach problem levels.

It is going to take more than half a liter of soda to fill a base properly which means that the potential CO2 is going to be higher than one liter as well. If you are only adding a little soda to water then why do it at all?

Why do something that is pretty much guaranteed to be an issue for a minimal effect? Almost no added flavor and a minor and temporary fizzy effect is not worth the risk of problems. Add it to water and there will not be a noticeable flavor and any other effect will be negated. So why do it at all in that case?

It's always safer to take the conservative route when it come to toxicity levels than it is to say "I don't know the if it will hurt me so I may as well do it anyway."
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  #22  
Old February 17th, 2010, 08:03 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

In all seriousness working in the medical field, gardening and brewing has made me very aware of CO2 levels and how understated their dangers can be.
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  #23  
Old February 17th, 2010, 08:42 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

Good post Kal - I never would have figured all that. All I know is the one time I put soda in the base, I thought I was going to die after the first pull, lol. Tried it once and never again
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  #24  
Old February 17th, 2010, 09:04 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

kalutika i agree with you fully that if you dont know then that doesnt mean you should just try. i will say from my experiences when my friend has used some seltzer water mixed with a majority plain water there was a noticeable difference with no noticed ill effects, but i wouldnt ever think about filling a base with only soda.

ive worked around co2 (among other pressurized gasses) and do understand its potential but i also deal with a lot of general fear and myths/beliefs of how dangerous things are in many of my hobbies and what i am studying in school so i have gotten into a habit of taking everything with a grain of salt and trying to look into it.

-matt
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  #25  
Old February 17th, 2010, 10:55 PM
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Default Re: Maybe a fix for flat soda flavors...

i haven't done this since my friend smoked with 3 kings ql's and used redbull in the base with nakhla. he blew chunks everywhere. it makes you feel really dizzy and sick. it tastes great though.
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