Home User CP Browse Members Calendar Register Today!  
Get New posts Faq / Help? Community Menu
   

Go Back   Hookah Pro - Hookah Forum > Hookah Stuff > Hookah Discussion

Hookah Discussion General discussion related to hookah ...

A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Hookah Discussion

Reply Share
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old March 10th, 2010, 01:35 AM
Castro's Avatar
Castro
Status: Offline
Hookah Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 90
Default A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Anyone notice when you use a mouth tip or a finer hose piece there is a lil more taste and the smoke maybe the same mass but more condensed?

Been swapping 3 hoses around on the km and I really like using the Narbish from hoookahjohn and disposable mouth tips
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old March 10th, 2010, 01:40 AM
abu ronin's Avatar
abu ronin
Status: Offline
Hookah Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mpls
Posts: 4,498
Send a message via Yahoo to abu ronin
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Very observent Castro. I've long been a champion of narrow hose in order to increase flavor. The science is simple. More concentrated smoke= more flavor.I own both a Razan and Nammor and rarely use them. My nonwashable Syrians get all the play!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old March 10th, 2010, 01:48 AM
zeoalex
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 210
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

i noticed this the other day. i decided to use a cocotip with my narb and i got a much stronger flavor. i just feel like the draw is limited in using one.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old March 10th, 2010, 01:51 AM
gnuworldorder
Status: Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 566
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu ronin View Post
Very observent Castro. I've long been a champion of narrow hose in order to increase flavor. The science is simple. More concentrated smoke= more flavor.I own both a Razan and Nammor and rarely use them. My nonwashable Syrians get all the play!
how do you know that its more concentrated and its not that you are inhaling longer thus more time in your mouth
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old March 10th, 2010, 01:55 AM
abu ronin's Avatar
abu ronin
Status: Offline
Hookah Master
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: mpls
Posts: 4,498
Send a message via Yahoo to abu ronin
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
how do you know that its more concentrated and its not that you are inhaling longer thus more time in your mouth
a narrower draw allows less air the flow resulting in a more concentrated vein of smoke. I's pretty simple.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old March 10th, 2010, 02:07 AM
Castro's Avatar
Castro
Status: Offline
Hookah Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 90
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
how do you know that its more concentrated and its not that you are inhaling longer thus more time in your mouth

I have had about 3 or 4 sessions experimenting and it is concentrated for sure but yes your draw isnt as easy..
If you drawing the same amount of breathe with and with out a mouth tip
the later give a dense smoke with a bit more flavour
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old March 10th, 2010, 02:08 AM
Castro's Avatar
Castro
Status: Offline
Hookah Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 90
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu ronin View Post
a narrower draw allows less air the flow resulting in a more concentrated vein of smoke. I's pretty simple.

It makes sense
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old March 10th, 2010, 02:38 AM
Rob416's Avatar
Rob416
Status: Offline
Hookah Guru
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York Long Island
Posts: 2,085
Send a message via AIM to Rob416
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Hmm and this is why im terrible at the sciences. i never thought of this. i need to head to a local crap shop and pic up a thinner hose and se how i feel about this.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old March 10th, 2010, 12:44 PM
gnuworldorder
Status: Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 566
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

im not a fluids engineer but it really doesnt makes sense about concentrating it. it would be like using a thinner straw it just takes longer because less comes through right? ill ask one of my grad student friends tonight.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old March 10th, 2010, 12:52 PM
Scarcity's Avatar
Scarcity
Status: Offline
Hookah Aficionado
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,568
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

I've noticed this with some flavors, if you are using a nammor/razan/narbish put your thumb over the mouth piece and cover like 80-90% of it. It feels almost like solids sometimes.
@gnu gas and liquids are different, gas can be condensed and liquid, not as much. I assume that the condensing of the gas (in my mind, near the end of its trip) would increase the flavor.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old March 10th, 2010, 01:27 PM
Mackmaven's Avatar
Mackmaven
Status: Offline
Hookah Aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Posts: 1,646
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

I think I agree with the theory that with a smaller diameter you draw longer and focus the smoke jet onto your tongue better and thus get more taste out of the smoke. I don't think that the smaller hose would do much if anything to condense or concentrate the smoke because if the hose is restricting draw then you'd be pulling less smoke through the entire pipe to begin with, thus the smoke in the chamber would be slightly thinner because you're not pulling air through the bowl with the same force and the coals aren't heating to the same intensity.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old March 10th, 2010, 01:34 PM
gnuworldorder
Status: Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 566
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

well i was just assuming it was an ideal gas (which it isnt its actually a suspension) pv=nRT and nRT is constant so pv(thick hose)=pv(thin hose). so if you can get the same pressure on both hoses the volume would be the same which would mean it gets thicker. since the thinner hose has more resistance, it would mean the thicker hose would have less pressure and therefor need more volume to equal out.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old March 10th, 2010, 01:58 PM
jusuravragecrakr's Avatar
jusuravragecrakr
Status: Offline
Hookah Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Palmdale Ca
Posts: 13
Send a message via AIM to jusuravragecrakr
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

im def gunna have to try this out all the fancy science sounds interesting too
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old March 10th, 2010, 02:06 PM
ryon's Avatar
ryon
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 345
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

I've noticed this too
Next session I'm using my mini Mya hose and rotate that with my nammor and see if there's a difference
This intrigues me lol
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old March 10th, 2010, 02:46 PM
Scarcity's Avatar
Scarcity
Status: Offline
Hookah Aficionado
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,568
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
well i was just assuming it was an ideal gas (which it isnt its actually a suspension) pv=nRT and nRT is constant so pv(thick hose)=pv(thin hose). so if you can get the same pressure on both hoses the volume would be the same which would mean it gets thicker. since the thinner hose has more resistance, it would mean the thicker hose would have less pressure and therefor need more volume to equal out.
It's actually a sol, but regardless. I'm unsure of why the gas las would be applicable here even, but assuming the pressure is the suction from your lungs than the volume would be same, but that is not true as the hoses are different containers an therefore hold different volumes as you have to apply more pressure through a smaller hose to get the volume. Don't think of it mathematically, you're pulling harder through a smaller hose which causes the same amount of smoke to condense through the smaller opening, increasing the density.
I have no idea if that made sense, it was mostly stream of thought writing so we'll see how it turns out.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old March 10th, 2010, 03:13 PM
Mackmaven's Avatar
Mackmaven
Status: Offline
Hookah Aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Posts: 1,646
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
well i was just assuming it was an ideal gas (which it isnt its actually a suspension) pv=nRT and nRT is constant so pv(thick hose)=pv(thin hose). so if you can get the same pressure on both hoses the volume would be the same which would mean it gets thicker. since the thinner hose has more resistance, it would mean the thicker hose would have less pressure and therefor need more volume to equal out.
I'm not gonna claim to understand that formula but it seems to me that in order for there to be a constant there would have to be a contained (or "constant") environment. The hose is not such, it's a passageway, your lungs could fill the role of a constant containment area and I could see the smoke concentrating there, but thats well past the taste buds... maybe on the exhale it makes a diff?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old March 10th, 2010, 04:40 PM
flippy's Avatar
flippy
Status: Offline
Hookah Enthusiast
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1,083
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Thats why I don't smoke with my KM hose. I use the nammor, but I use a diffuser which makes the draw slightly harder but the flavor increases so much when using a diffuser.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old March 10th, 2010, 05:21 PM
gnuworldorder
Status: Offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 566
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

if harder draws make it more dense why dont you just partially block the stem then?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old March 10th, 2010, 05:38 PM
bpetruzzo's Avatar
bpetruzzo
Status: Offline
Hookah Pro
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Annapolis/Washington DC
Posts: 709
Send a message via AIM to bpetruzzo Send a message via Skype™ to bpetruzzo
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

I'm not convinced that it actually means the smoke is more dense. I'm not sure that a narrow draw would actually produce that. If you had 30% oxygen and 70% smoke flowing through your hookah, narrowing the draw would not somehow increase the density of the smoke to say, 85%.

I suspect that it has more to do with a narrow draw forcing you to take your time as you inhale which means the flavor spends more time passing your tongue and hence, would seem to be more flavor. Because flavor in hookah smoke can be communicated with only a small amount of smoke. But More smoke doesn't usually mean more flavor. Think of it like french fries. Eating 8 french fries at a time doesn't make them taste more strongly like french fries. You can spread out the enjoyment of the french fry flavor by eating them one or two at a time. It's the same with hookah smoke. One full breath of smoke taken in 1 second, will produce the same flavor as a breath taken in four seconds, but inhaling slower spreads the flavor out.

Or, at least that's what I suspect the reason is. I personally use Coco tips on my Nammor hoses. The draw is about as close to perfect as I can get. Well, actually, the best draw I know of is a Narbish plugged up to my 24" Mya. Somehow the gauge between the two is just right.
__________________
This is my:
website, petruzzo.com
blog, williampetruzzo.com
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old March 10th, 2010, 05:58 PM
Biloshambles
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 266
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

its just the placebo effect
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old March 10th, 2010, 06:15 PM
blacklit
Status: Offline
Hookah Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 67
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

hehe maybe : ) by the same token, could we get more coke flavor sipping it through narrow straws?

but our tongue has different flavor spots, no? maybe just aim it at the right spot.

Last edited by blacklit; March 10th, 2010 at 06:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old March 10th, 2010, 06:28 PM
photolinger's Avatar
photolinger
Status: Offline
Arabian Sensation

 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 5,364
Send a message via AIM to photolinger Send a message via MSN to photolinger Send a message via Yahoo to photolinger Send a message via Skype™ to photolinger
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Regardless of how this occurs, this is the reason why I do not prefer a wide open draw, a little bit of resistance is how I like it.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old March 10th, 2010, 07:16 PM
DRMALIKIA's Avatar
DRMALIKIA
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Twin Titties
Posts: 469
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
im not a fluids engineer but it really doesnt makes sense about concentrating it. it would be like using a thinner straw it just takes longer because less comes through right? ill ask one of my grad student friends tonight.
Maybe this will help explain it. Could not find the correct CFM diagram to do this justice so I just winged it, hope this helps. Basically think of smoke as only so much being generated when you take a draw on the hose. Regardless of how fast you take a hit, the smoke generation is fixed. Therefore a massive hit, when mixed with a large amount of air, just washes the smoke out. In contrast, a slower steadier hit will take as much smoke as the shisha generates and thus allows you to accumulate more smoke using a smaller volume of air. At least that is how I rationalize it to myself, I like the large hoses for the volume of air but, you should still draw on them slow.

I remember someone taking about taking three quick puffs on the hookah to get it going and then taking a longer draw. All about maintaining a steady draw and taking just as much, not more, of what your tobacco can generate via smoke.

Last edited by DRMALIKIA; March 10th, 2010 at 07:23 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old March 10th, 2010, 07:19 PM
Mackmaven's Avatar
Mackmaven
Status: Offline
Hookah Aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Mar Vista, CA
Posts: 1,646
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

damn we need a scientist. That's a good example but it doesn't account for the higher/faster draw stoking the coals and generating more smoke as result of a higher burn temp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
Maybe this will help explain it. Could not find the correct CFM diagram to do this justice so I just winged it, hope this helps.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old March 10th, 2010, 07:33 PM
DRMALIKIA's Avatar
DRMALIKIA
Status: Offline
Hookah Nut
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Twin Titties
Posts: 469
Default Re: A finer draw + thicker smoke..

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpetruzzo View Post
I'm not convinced that it actually means the smoke is more dense. I'm not sure that a narrow draw would actually produce that. If you had 30% oxygen and 70% smoke flowing through your hookah, narrowing the draw would not somehow increase the density of the smoke to say, 85%.

I suspect that it has more to do with a narrow draw forcing you to take your time as you inhale which means the flavor spends more time passing your tongue and hence, would seem to be more flavor. Because flavor in hookah smoke can be communicated with only a small amount of smoke. But More smoke doesn't usually mean more flavor. Think of it like french fries. Eating 8 french fries at a time doesn't make them taste more strongly like french fries. You can spread out the enjoyment of the french fry flavor by eating them one or two at a time. It's the same with hookah smoke. One full breath of smoke taken in 1 second, will produce the same flavor as a breath taken in four seconds, but inhaling slower spreads the flavor out.

Or, at least that's what I suspect the reason is. I personally use Coco tips on my Nammor hoses. The draw is about as close to perfect as I can get. Well, actually, the best draw I know of is a Narbish plugged up to my 24" Mya. Somehow the gauge between the two is just right.
Yeah, I am going to go ahead and disagree with that. We are talking volumes and densities here and that logic is not sound. For example:

You have two glasses of juice. One is frozen (condensed) and one is normal shelf juice (water added). The flavor intensity in the condensed juice will be far superior to the water downed juice. Just because it has juice in it, does not mean they both are the same intensity. If I hold a mouth full of chopped jalapenos or one seed, I bet I am going to know the difference. Regardless of the time spent in your mouth, the larger quantity of jalapenos is going to fuck me up verse the single seed.

Where the taste comes from is your "NOSE" not your mouth. 70-75% of your taste is from your nose. That is why you "taste" the hit as you exhale and more so if you blow it out all valves and not just your mouth. So the more dense the smoke, the more your nose has to sample and the increase in sensation you experience.

Not badgering just disagreeing with your logic my friend.
Reply With Quote
Reply Share
Share with your friends on facebook

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How To Make A Draw More Restricted patelbadboy2006 Hookah Discussion 22 November 1st, 2009 06:58 PM
Bigger thicker clouds.... Encryptedhookah Hookah Discussion 10 July 23rd, 2009 02:17 PM
Small hookah for outings-great draw & smoke ShishaBubbly Vendor Sales / Specials / Deals 1 May 30th, 2009 05:27 PM
thicker/denser smoke? KillerB Hookah Discussion 1 September 29th, 2008 03:47 AM
Thicker smoke (revisited) Roadie Hookah Discussion 21 September 7th, 2008 01:12 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:36 PM.

Skin Design By vBSkinworks



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2007 - 2012, Hookah Pro Inc.