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this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

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  #1  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:29 AM
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Default this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

looks like our letters didn't do anything guys, better have your local shop stock up on shisha tobacco.

The Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking Act of 2009 ("PACT Act") (S.1147) passed the Senate with a unanimous vote on March 11, 2010. On March 17, 2010, it passed the House.
President Obama will sign it into law very soon. After Pres. Obama signs the bill, we will have 90 days until the bill takes effect. This legislation contains a provision which will make ALL cigarettes, RYO, MYO and smokeless tobacco products nonmailable.
This law means you will no longer be able to purchase these products by mail-order, telephone order, or on the Internet, because the United States Postal Service, along with UPS, Fed-Ex and all other carriers will be prohibited by law from delivering your orders to you. [FONT=times new roman, times, serif]
[/FONT]
what a bunch of B.S. our government has become. i honestly don't think president obama is going to make it through his 4 year term if he keeps passing stupid shit like this. i'm so mad right now.

first my cloves, now my shisha tobacco. minors DO NOT save up $60.00 and buy cartons of cigarettes online. minors scrounge up 5 dollars and have their older brother buy them a pack.

i really hope that obama doesn't sign this (doubt), or the economy gets so bad that they have to start mailing tobacco again.
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  #2  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:35 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

that is such bull shit. and stupid as fuck too. If you're not going to allow the mailing of tobacco then it might as well be banned. Because once companies run out of stock then how the FUCK do they expect them to keep a business running? Thousands of tobacco shops will be forced to close if they cant get shipment of supplies.
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  #3  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:38 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Ahhhhhh I was hoping this wouldn't go through = /
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  #4  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:45 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryAki View Post
that is such bull shit. and stupid as fuck too. If you're not going to allow the mailing of tobacco then it might as well be banned. Because once companies run out of stock then how the FUCK do they expect them to keep a business running? Thousands of tobacco shops will be forced to close if they cant get shipment of supplies.
i think you can have tobacco mailed to you if you own a tobacco business license. that's how it is in washington. and i believe they card you when UPS gets to your business and they require a direct signature.
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  #5  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:47 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

How is hookah included in this? It was cigarettes and smokeless tobacco
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  #6  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:51 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewymatingcall View Post
How is hookah included in this? It was cigarettes and smokeless tobacco
hookah tobacco is classified as pipe tobacco. it makes all tobacco unmailable, whether it's a pack of cigs, a can of dip, a pouch of pipe tobacco, or a box of shisha.
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  #7  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

I better stock up while we still have the chance to. Sucks big time
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  #8  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:56 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

I was just reading into S.1147 here: http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s1147/showSec.

3)Amends the federal criminal code to treat cigarettes and smokeless tobacco as nonmailable matter and prohibit their deposit into the U.S. mails. Requires the USPS to refuse to accept for delivery or transmit through the mails any package that it knows or has reasonable cause to believe contains any cigarettes or smokeless tobacco made nonmailable by this Act. Exempts from such prohibition:
(1) cigars; and
(2) mailings within the states of Alaska or Hawaii;
(3) mailings for business purposes between legally operating tobacco businesses and by individuals for noncommercial purposes; or

So... looks like you can ship B2B no problem and private exchange should be ok. That is a good first step...
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Last edited by oSPANNERo; March 31st, 2010 at 06:44 AM.
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  #9  
Old March 31st, 2010, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

well if business to business is okay then i guess im in the clear. I dont normally purchase my shisha online anyways.

What about pipes and such?
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  #10  
Old March 31st, 2010, 04:03 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Actually I researched this, cigarette needs to be smoked in paper or tobacco, not a bowl
Therefore, shisha tobacco is considered pipe and therefore excluded
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  #11  
Old March 31st, 2010, 04:15 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Does this mean that like every online vendor is screwed?
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  #12  
Old March 31st, 2010, 04:33 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

what about herbal? i like some tobacco but herbal has got me from the flavor and no headache
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  #13  
Old March 31st, 2010, 05:04 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewymatingcall View Post
Actually I researched this, cigarette needs to be smoked in paper or tobacco, not a bowl
Therefore, shisha tobacco is considered pipe and therefore excluded
Any way you can link to the articles and/or sources from your research? I am not trying to question you, just would like to read the info as well!
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  #14  
Old March 31st, 2010, 07:11 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

How does hookah tobacco qualify as "ALL cigarettes, RYO, MYO and smokeless tobacco products nonmailable"? This is all about cigarettes and dip/chew, it says nothing about pipe tobacco.
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  #15  
Old March 31st, 2010, 07:20 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

I may have found the answer to my own question. Found it here http://www.govtrack.us/users/questio...bill:s111-1147 under "Does this bill include pipe tobacco?"

A2: Throughout the bill, it refers to cigarettes and smokeless tobacco. Under "Section 1. Definitions", both terms are defined. If you'll refer to that section, you'll see that smokelss tobacco is "intended to be placed in the oral or nasal cavity or otherwise consumed without being combusted." So that wouldn't apply to pipe tobacco.

For the definition of a cigarette, the bill refers to section 2341 of title 18, United States Code, which itself focuses on two things, a roll of tobacco wrapped in paper or any substance not containing tobacco (which incidentally leaves cigars out), and that due to form and appearance is likely to be offered to consumers as a cigarette.

Which leaves the reference to "roll-your-own tobacco." The bill refers to the definition in section 5702 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. That definition doesn't apply to pipe tobacco either: "The term ?roll-your-own tobacco? means any tobacco which, because of its appearance, type, packaging, or labeling, is suitable for use and likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as tobacco for making cigarettes." As added evidence of this, that section of the Internal Revenue Code has a separate definition of pipe tobacco.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/se...2----000-.html
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  #16  
Old March 31st, 2010, 07:26 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oSPANNERo View Post
I may have found the answer to my own question. Found it here http://www.govtrack.us/users/questio...bill:s111-1147 under "Does this bill include pipe tobacco?"

A2: Throughout the bill, it refers to cigarettes and smokeless tobacco. Under "Section 1. Definitions", both terms are defined. If you'll refer to that section, you'll see that smokelss tobacco is "intended to be placed in the oral or nasal cavity or otherwise consumed without being combusted." So that wouldn't apply to pipe tobacco.

For the definition of a cigarette, the bill refers to section 2341 of title 18, United States Code, which itself focuses on two things, a roll of tobacco wrapped in paper or any substance not containing tobacco (which incidentally leaves cigars out), and that due to form and appearance is likely to be offered to consumers as a cigarette.

Which leaves the reference to "roll-your-own tobacco." The bill refers to the definition in section 5702 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. That definition doesn't apply to pipe tobacco either: "The term ?roll-your-own tobacco? means any tobacco which, because of its appearance, type, packaging, or labeling, is suitable for use and likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as tobacco for making cigarettes." As added evidence of this, that section of the Internal Revenue Code has a separate definition of pipe tobacco.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/se...2----000-.html
Oh man. I really hope this is the way it is. Otherwise, time to place that DM order I was saving for the summer...
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  #17  
Old March 31st, 2010, 08:56 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Looks like we may be in the clear til the 775% tax
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  #18  
Old March 31st, 2010, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Glad someone read it.
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  #19  
Old March 31st, 2010, 09:40 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

SS1.4.2.b says that it doesnt include retailers. also ianal but i dont see anything that talks about pipe tobacco.

also for the lulz
"
(2) Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda, and other terrorist organizations have profited from trafficking in illegal cigarettes or counterfeit cigarette tax stamps;


(3) terrorist involvement in illicit cigarette trafficking will continue to grow because of the large profits such organizations can earn;
"
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  #20  
Old March 31st, 2010, 10:02 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
SS1.4.2.b says that it doesnt include retailers. also ianal but i dont see anything that talks about pipe tobacco.
That's cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gnuworldorder View Post
also for the lulz
"
(2) Hezbollah, Hamas, al Qaeda, and other terrorist organizations have profited from trafficking in illegal cigarettes or counterfeit cigarette tax stamps;


(3) terrorist involvement in illicit cigarette trafficking will continue to grow because of the large profits such organizations can earn;
"
That's lame!
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  #21  
Old March 31st, 2010, 10:09 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

ya im still reading through it and its bringing flash backs of my IP classes im about 1/2 way into it and i dont think it would change anything. all that it looks like is big tobacco trying to strangle out what little is left by making things like shipping more than 10lbs illegal and various other things.
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  #22  
Old March 31st, 2010, 10:20 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oSPANNERo View Post
That's lame!
Was of course referring to the reasoning behind the bill. It was indeed full o' lulz!
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  #23  
Old March 31st, 2010, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oSPANNERo View Post
I may have found the answer to my own question. Found it here http://www.govtrack.us/users/questio...bill:s111-1147 under "Does this bill include pipe tobacco?"

A2: Throughout the bill, it refers to cigarettes and smokeless tobacco. Under "Section 1. Definitions", both terms are defined. If you'll refer to that section, you'll see that smokelss tobacco is "intended to be placed in the oral or nasal cavity or otherwise consumed without being combusted." So that wouldn't apply to pipe tobacco.

For the definition of a cigarette, the bill refers to section 2341 of title 18, United States Code, which itself focuses on two things, a roll of tobacco wrapped in paper or any substance not containing tobacco (which incidentally leaves cigars out), and that due to form and appearance is likely to be offered to consumers as a cigarette.

Which leaves the reference to "roll-your-own tobacco." The bill refers to the definition in section 5702 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986. That definition doesn't apply to pipe tobacco either: "The term ?roll-your-own tobacco? means any tobacco which, because of its appearance, type, packaging, or labeling, is suitable for use and likely to be offered to, or purchased by, consumers as tobacco for making cigarettes." As added evidence of this, that section of the Internal Revenue Code has a separate definition of pipe tobacco.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/se...2----000-.html
Thats what I found, sorry, I went to sleep
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  #24  
Old March 31st, 2010, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

That sucks for the snuff, snus and dip users but it does not affect us as hookah smokers. really sucks for the snuff and snus guys as those products are hard to find in local shops at all and there is a huge variety that are not readily sold i this country.
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  #25  
Old March 31st, 2010, 01:03 PM
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Default Re: this is the worst thing that could ever happen to us hookah smokers.

Yikes... Well if hookah tobacco is in the clear, for now looks like we'd better be placing orders and purchasing before the 775% tax goes into effect.. I have a hunch that the government will get to us hookah smokers before too long... We've been lucky up to this point
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