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Forum Announcement: Regarding Hookah John

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  #226  
Old April 4th, 2010, 07:01 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Goth, I think it's one of those things were we couldn't mention HP in the video, and we can't link it here.
  #227  
Old April 4th, 2010, 07:05 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

I think puck is on the right track, but you bring up a very valid question. Let me ask the other mods. I think Puck's answer is on the money though, but I'll make sure.
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  #228  
Old April 4th, 2010, 08:14 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

in my opinion, i think we should be allowed to talk about **********s products, without being a salesperson. if people are having trouble with the alien funnel not smoking right, then they should be able to get a good answer right?

to be honest, i'm pretty sad that he's gone. i liked reading his stories, and he (almost) always added to the conversation like a regular smoker, like you and i. i'm really hoping HP and john will come back together soon.

this really sucks for john though, cause there won't be any more sales or anything in the vendor section. to be honest i would have never heard of or ordered from john unless i had been here. i'm probably not going to order from him as much.
  #229  
Old April 4th, 2010, 08:48 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

..."Meos tam suspicione quam crimine iudico carere oportere.." Caesar's wife must be beyond reproach.
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  #230  
Old April 4th, 2010, 08:51 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

What Caesar actually said was, “Meos tam suspicione quam crimine iudico carere oportere.” (“My wife should be as much free from suspicion of a crime as she is from a crime itself.”)
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  #231  
Old April 4th, 2010, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnwhyte View Post
Alright, well, even though my opinion really means nothing to anyone, I feel I should share it.

I've looked into this earlier today, taking in as much information about the situation as I could find, and after the rest of the day, and a few beers, it's sunk in pretty well.

Whether it be HP vs HJ or SamB vs HJ... there is no winner in this fight. Only losers. A lot of them actually, as all the losers are us, the customer and general forum user. I have no strong pull in either direction on this issue, and as someone in the middle, all I can think about it how much of a loss this is for the consumers of the site. I feel that all vendors should have the ability to join in normal discussions with forum members, and each vendor has a specialized name saying they are a vendor so distinguishing between vendors and members is not difficult at all, and I feel that it is an insult to my intelligence thinking that one vendors opinion could alter ordering plans. And even using the review section as a point of reference, I never trust them 100% because of course it is all opinion, but when taking in many many opinions, they form something that is more factual, so if 20 people say one thing about a product, and 2 say the opposite, odds are the majority will have it.

But I also feel, that if vendors are not permitted to be active members and share opinions, that that should apply to those who are in a position of authority, whether it be moderator or admin. The title alone could mislead new hookah smokers to listen to you over other members who may have just as much, or even more experience in this area than them. Vendors are here, and exist, because they are passionate about hookah. You moderators are here and in your position because you are passionate about hookah. We are all here reading this, concerned about the future of the site, because we are passionate about hookah.

This all just seems to be a clash of egos to me. I am not defending John, nor am I defending HP, but I believe 100% that this is a complete disservice to the consumers, and mainly the new consumers just finding this site or who will in the near future, as John has always had a great selection of products, good service, and the whole nine yards. Though there are many other great vendors here on this site, banning one of the favorite vendors here (not saying he is my favorite) for infractions, that frankly seem way blown out of proportion, seems ridiculous.

And though I don't agree with how John spoke about Social Smoke shisha, if worded better and in less of a rush to be written, I feel like his point would have been driven home better. The same point that normal members brought up in the same thread, or similar threads, about the validity of the claims of made in America shisha,

Well there was my completely unbiased review of the situation. Now it is off the bed because this alcohol is starting to make my head hurt.
Shawn, you make some good points. But the thing is ,yes, when vendors are allowed to interact in the general forum we better for it. And 99% of the time that's true. But the problem is, when a vendor takes advantage of that privelige, and it IS a privelige, to use the general discussion to push products and attack the cmpetition then it becomes unfair to all the other vendors, especially those w/good intentions who play by the rules. It also has the potential to create a burst of self promoting by vendors which could turn this race into soethng it was never intended to be. We're working on policies that will adress this issue, but when vendors push the envelope in such a way as HJ has is has to stop. Us banning HJ has not made it difficult for members. HJ's acton have made it difficult because he forced our hand and brought it to this.
  #232  
Old April 4th, 2010, 10:36 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

So are you guys gonna re-name our alien reviews? And should we edit them to take out all the mentions of John? I still think think that as a product, it should have a review up because it really is that amazing.
  #233  
Old April 4th, 2010, 11:02 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Again( and again,and again), we're working on the product policy and will release it soon.
  #234  
Old April 4th, 2010, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu ronin View Post
Again( and again,and again), we're working on the product policy and will release it soon.

Sorry man, not gonna read through that many pages.

You guys should make clift notes on page 1.
  #235  
Old April 4th, 2010, 11:06 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Zen, from everything I have read in this thread it seems like:

The Mods are at least leaning towards allowing us to talk about the Alien, Narbish, CH Coals, and any other HJ product. Just won't be able to say "Alien Mini Phunnel Bowl by **********", you will instead need to say "Alien Mini Phunnel Bowl". Not too difficult, right?

As for previous posts/reviews, this seems to be a "Going Forward" blackout, rather than Retro Active. Its not like they are going to Purge every last vestige of HJ from the site. Just can't add to it.
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  #236  
Old April 4th, 2010, 11:08 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk1 View Post
Sorry man, not gonna read through that many pages.

You guys should make clift notes on page 1.
Good point.. I am sure you are not the only one who has only read the First and Last pages and had questions.
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24" Solid Al Fakher, AF hose, MNH Phunnel
30" Solid Al Fakher, AF Hose, Vortex, Blue v3 Narbish, "The Circus" Crown Hookahs Tip
36" Solid Al Fakher, Blue Razan
29" KM Trimetal, KM "Red Lion" Gilded Base, Crown Jewel Bowl, Red v3 Narbish, CH "Solar Flare" Tip
  #237  
Old April 4th, 2010, 11:14 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by oSPANNERo View Post
Zen, from everything I have read in this thread it seems like:

The Mods are at least leaning towards allowing us to talk about the Alien, Narbish, CH Coals, and any other HJ product. Just won't be able to say "Alien Mini Phunnel Bowl by **********", you will instead need to say "Alien Mini Phunnel Bowl". Not too difficult, right?

As for previous posts/reviews, this seems to be a "Going Forward" blackout, rather than Retro Active. Its not like they are going to Purge every last vestige of HJ from the site. Just can't add to it.

Yeah that makes sense to me. Thanks Spanner!
  #238  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by unicycleboy3190 View Post
*stands and claps* im not going to lie john has messed up my order every time i order from him and idk why everyone loves him my order eather come short or messed up, i have not order from john in a long time due to this matter
and HP is for our honest op and for john to want you to lie and say that you think his coals are the best isnt what this forums about

i just give props to sam and all the mobs of HP for having to deal with that
I just want to go ahead and ask how many times have you ordered from him? and if anything you know that if he does mess up your order you deal directly with him when you call?

If anything you guys need to do what my paintball forum did for this SAME situation. A company on my paintball forum violated rules and did some bashing. Instead of banning them, they made it so that every time you typed in Virtue paintball, it would come up as ****** and then it was a link that went to a thread with an explanation. That works out much better than warning people not to mention you know who.
  #239  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:13 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by flippy View Post
If anything you guys need to do what my paintball forum did for this SAME situation. A company on my paintball forum violated rules and did some bashing. Instead of banning them, they made it so that every time you typed in Virtue paintball, it would come up as ****** and then it was a link that went to a thread with an explanation. That works out much better than warning people not to mention you know who.
Adding a word censor sounds like a good idea to me. It would even make the mods jobs easier in my mind. instead of censoring 'bad' words, set it up so censor 'bad' vendors and what not.
  #240  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:18 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by flippy View Post
I just want to go ahead and ask how many times have you ordered from him? and if anything you know that if he does mess up your order you deal directly with him when you call?

If anything you guys need to do what my paintball forum did for this SAME situation. A company on my paintball forum violated rules and did some bashing. Instead of banning them, they made it so that every time you typed in Virtue paintball, it would come up as ****** and then it was a link that went to a thread with an explanation. That works out much better than warning people not to mention you know who.
Johns' business title is ''Hookah John''. Are you suggesting we filter the word ''hookah'' from the >Hookah< Pro forum? And for the record, not banning is off the table. John is banned from HP. it's done!!
  #241  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Well I wasn't sure if you could censor Phrases or not.
  #242  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:25 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by flippy View Post
I just want to go ahead and ask how many times have you ordered from him? and if anything you know that if he does mess up your order you deal directly with him when you call?

If anything you guys need to do what my paintball forum did for this SAME situation. A company on my paintball forum violated rules and did some bashing. Instead of banning them, they made it so that every time you typed in Virtue paintball, it would come up as ****** and then it was a link that went to a thread with an explanation. That works out much better than warning people not to mention you know who.
ya i remember that being common on paintball forums and honestly some of the time it got annoying, and why does virtue paintball sound familiar, i remember some sketchy stuff

i do agree if it is doable for this forum set up to do what you said it would be easier and simpler in the long run

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu ronin View Post
Johns' business title is ''Hookah John''. Are you suggesting we filter the word ''hookah'' from the >Hookah< Pro forum? And for the record, not banning is off the table. John is banned from HP. it's done!!
ya some filters can do phrases and also many refer to him as "**********"
-matt
  #243  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:29 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

we were looking into that. i'm sure there's some way of doing it without censoring the word hookah all together.
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  #244  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

I mean keep him banned, but you can't stop people from bringing up his name. New people will probably bring him up and people will forget.
  #245  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:26 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Thats sad hes gone but I saw this coming, thanks Samb for letting us know whats been happening.

Thanks
  #246  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:27 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Bye Hookahpro!
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  #247  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Bye Sui!
  #248  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sui View Post
Bye Hookahpro!
what?,you leave because a vender is gone,that childish,but everyone has their own opinions
  #249  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Very strange news... Didn't see this one coming but I suppose all good things must come to an end.
  #250  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Being a n00b to the hookah scene, I am not too sure how to react. It does seem however, that the HP forums are run in quite a peculiar way as far as advertising/vendor relationships go. How can it be a member focused community when users are not allowed to mention certain vendors who they feel are the most capable of providing a good product/service? Never been on a forum that does that. A vendor's/advertiser's reputation will be determined by how well they serve their customers. No need for making vendors "unmentionable" if you will. Phrase editing is a great idea. vB is a great front end, and is the software allows it, that would be a solution IMHO, and would go a long way towards helping people not feel as if they are walking on eggshells just for posting their opinion.

Having said that, your house, your rules. I plan on continuing to support John as long as my needs as a consumer are met. Just sucks to have other people potentially miss out on a great vendor.
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