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Forum Announcement: Regarding Hookah John

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  #76  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 02:32 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewymatingcall View Post
I understand that but should some weird chain of events be set off I was hypothesizing that rules would change. I was mainly referring to John coming back and begging to be let back in but allowing for the alternative
Oh I got that. I just wanted to make that even more clear lol. I hope that if he ever does come back it will be because he wants to be a part of the community and a friend to the community again (mine as well) not just because he sees us as a place to get numbers. I know it's business but was are not a vendor centric community and I like that.
  #77  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 02:35 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

On the greyish black bar up at the top of the page. All the way to the left right under the front page button. It's my best friend when I want to play quick catch up on posts. It gives you all the posts that have been made that you did not look at yet.
  #78  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 02:59 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

[quote=uglybiker;283107]Because Sambooka owns this site and can say whatever he wants.
His house = His rules.
Also, he's not making any money on anything he reviews.[/quote]

"What we have here... is a failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men." (Joking Joking)

But in all reality, any website, no matter what kind of content, is really a "Benevolent Dictatorship!" And I quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_dictatorship

"In the modern era, the term benevolent dictator has also been applied to leaders of an open source software project that have final control over the direction and content of software developed by a larger group of programmers. Because open source software may be forked, such "dictatorships" are fully voluntary and incorporate the democratic ideal of "consent of the governed""

The short version is that its exactly what Ugly said, SamB's house, SamB's rules. He is kind enough to let us have some say in the rules and their enforcement but in the end he has final say.

In the end I will paraphrase a Quote from Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. This quote comes from March when he spoke about Lt. Gen. Benjamin R. Mixon, the commander of the U.S. Army Pacific, and the General's dissention regarding abolishing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell":

"If you feel so strongly that you cannot abide by policy changes, the answer is not advocacy. It is in fact to vote with your feet."
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Last edited by oSPANNERo; April 2nd, 2010 at 03:35 AM.
  #79  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 05:06 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by chewymatingcall View Post
It will be interesting to see how things turn out. Johns sales numbers and HPs new member/active member numbers. The results may affect how things pan out. If one ends up hurting they may have to compromise to the other
HP wont be effected much by 1 vendor not being here, the vendors sales will be hit hard, as people wont be mentioning his name or products here

I'll still buy from who ever has the cheapest prices for the stuff i want, be it a banned vendor or not.

John customer service has never been quetioned he has always been great to me, but all the violations he did in the HP commuinitity, i think he deserved to be banned, i personally didnt see the latest one's as i aint been online much, but i have seen him pushing products in videos and posts.
  #80  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

I hate to see him go, but rules are rules. They make life just a bit easier to live. If one person goes around thinking that he/she can break the rules anytime they want, everyone suffers from it, in the end.
  #81  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 10:55 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

It's a shame that any of this had to happen but he broke the rules and if he wasn't banned then there would be chaos and it would be unfair to those who abide by the rules.

To be honest after Reading his email it did put some doubt in my mind but after reading the OP I no longer have any debts. What John wrote was just assumptions, alligations and emotional BS whereas the HP response is all backed up with hard facts so John can only blame himself for this. He's lost all credibility with me as far as I'm concerned. I don't know why people go on about being a great vendor, if he was then he wouldn't have done all this shit, great vendors don't break rules to promote themselves and don't sell on the weakness of others but sell on their strengths.

This is a great forum and a friendly forum, I hope it stays that way and I hope there's no more drama.
  #82  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 11:33 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

The point of this post was to let everyone know what was going on, and I think that was accomplished.

I don't know why anyone is getting upset. I can care less if he is banned, I can still order from him just like everyone else on here, its your choice not hookahpros.

Sam said he is going to leave this thread open for discussion but aside from a couple of good questions(i.e.: "can we mention his products") all that I have seen are some people attacking this thread.

Everyone can order from him it's not like he was banned off the face of the earth.
  #83  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 12:08 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

I figured this was going to be the outcome, yet I feel it is something that could have been avoided, you make decisions in life and you have to deal with the outcome of those decisions, C'est la vie. Will I continue to order from him? Yes, occasionally, he's a one stop shop and he focuses/ focused on carrying what people on this forum liked, and for me personally the discount code he gave was a big incentive as well (I bet others will agree, don't lie.) I'm sure though there are plenty of other vendors that would be willing to step up to the plate and pick up the following he had on here...

Last edited by BIGPOPPA; April 2nd, 2010 at 12:13 PM. Reason: secret squirrel
  #84  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 12:23 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
Oh I got that. I just wanted to make that even more clear lol. I hope that if he ever does come back it will be because he wants to be a part of the community and a friend to the community again (mine as well) not just because he sees us as a place to get numbers. I know it's business but was are not a vendor centric community and I like that.
This was a very informative thread. But this post in particular is definitely nice to see. You guys said he broke the rules and you did what was necessary, but it is still nice to know that it isn't like a GTFO John. Though I know it will take time it is nice to know that you may consider letting him return. I guess what i'm trying to say is it's an unfortunate situation for all parties involved but at least no one seems to be "burning bridges".
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  #85  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:02 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

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Originally Posted by uglybiker View Post
Because Sambooka owns this site and can say whatever he wants.
His house = His rules.
Also, he's not making any money on anything he reviews.
And you know this how? You take his word for it? Cmon now. I dont see any reason why someone would randomly start putting a Coco-Nara commercial in their video reviews if they are not getting comped coals or paid $$.. easy as that.

also. I imagine with HJ's products such as CH Coals and the Narbish hose, that we will be able to mention them and review them but just not say what site we ordered it from. Similar to how people mention the caravan hose (and we all know who makes that).
  #86  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:05 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

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Originally Posted by Jride View Post
And you know this how? You take his word for it? Cmon now. I dont see any reason why someone would randomly start putting a Coco-Nara commercial in their video reviews if they are not getting comped coals or paid $$.. easy as that.

also. I imagine with HJ's products such as CH Coals and the Narbish hose, that we will be able to mention them and review them but just not say what site we ordered it from. Similar to how people mention the caravan hose (and we all know who makes that).
Sambooka stands by these coals. He uses them more than he does Exoticas. Reason he tells everyone about them is the fact the he uses them and likes them. I recommend them over the rest as well. Am I getting paid by Coco?
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  #87  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:08 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jride View Post
And you know this how? You take his word for it? Cmon now. I dont see any reason why someone would randomly start putting a Coco-Nara commercial in their video reviews if they are not getting comped coals or paid $$.. easy as that.

also. I imagine with HJ's products such as CH Coals and the Narbish hose, that we will be able to mention them and review them but just not say what site we ordered it from. Similar to how people mention the caravan hose (and we all know who makes that).
Jride, John's ban is not up for debate and neither is whether you think Sambooka is getting comped or not. This is an informative thread to give the public exactly what they have been asking for for weeks.....Answers. So lets leave this thread at that ok.
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  #88  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:09 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptHowdy View Post
Sambooka stands by these coals. He uses them more than he does Exoticas. Reason he tells everyone about them is the fact the he uses them and likes them. I recommend them over the rest as well. Am I getting paid by Coco?
Alot of people like them, they are my personal favorites as well and I like to tell people about them. I also talk about my KM and DM shisha. It doesnt mean they are paying me. Lets drop this crap ok, this is not the place to do this.
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  #89  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:13 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Im sorry but you guys being moderators for this forum working for Sambooka just leads to me to not take your word seriously for this issue.

I understand recommending them in videos (which he already does). But he went through the trouble of making a commercial and plugging the coco-nara website on here in posts whenever possible. I fucking absolutely LOVE Khalil Mammon hookahs, am I going to put a commercial in my video intro to advertise that just because I think so highly of them? no.

I dont expect you guys to answer my questions because you really cant.

Sambooka, my statements werent directed as hate towards you. You are a great person and I respect you for everything you've done to build this great site. I just want everybody to open their eyes and see that everyone is bias no matter hard you try not to be.
  #90  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:16 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jride View Post
Im sorry but you guys being moderators for this forum working for Sambooka just leads to me to not take your word seriously for this issue.

I understand recommending them in videos (which he already does). But he went through the trouble of making a commercial and plugging the coco-nara website on here in posts whenever possible. I fucking absolutely LOVE Khalil Mammon hookahs, am I going to put a commercial in my video intro to advertise that just because I think so highly of them? no.

I dont expect you guys to answer my questions because you really cant.

Sambooka, my statements werent directed as hate towards you. You are a great person and I respect you for everything you've done to build this great site. I just want everybody to open their eyes and see that everyone is bias no matter hard you try not to be.
Jride, this is getting ridiculous. You continue to avoid the mods request to stop this and keep this topic at hand. This is not a thread to bash Sambooka. This is not a thread to say that we are all biased when we aren't. This is a thread to discuss what has been going on with HJ.

Please keep this on topic and stop with this nonsense Jride!
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  #91  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:18 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Like I said, this is not the thread nor the place. You obviously have an opinion and you are entitled to it. You have voiced said opinion and let everyone know you think Sambooka is a liar, we get that. I am not going to get in a pissing match with you about what I would do or what you would do or who is right or wrong for their opinion. I am a moderator and I have MY opinion, I am not a sheep that follows Sambooka around at his beck and call. To insinuate that is just wrong. Now lets drop it and get this back on topic.
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  #92  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Just thought i'd throw this in...you won't be banned from HP for speaking your mind or stating your opinion. as long as you can do this without disrespecting anyone or taking it over the top. Let's not forget, this forum is for the people.
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  #93  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:44 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Well now that we have seen this all finally play out, I guess I'll jump in and offer my own two cents for what its worth.

After sitting on the fence for quite some time, listening to both sides of the argument, and seeing this response by the HP Staff, I think there's a few points that I'd like to bring up, assuming that both parties are being truthful, without slander or falsifying information :

Part 1 : Johns Reponse

John Feels that he has been unfairly bashed on over the course of the last month or so, and with that, I agree to *some* extent. There have been posts, by members and staff alike, in threads relating to John and his products that have no place other than to serve as a bash against someone trying to discuss a product.

However I feel that this has been, lately, a recurring trend at HP over the last few months, and has contributed to my reluctant desire to continue to be a part of the community (For anyone who noticed that I havent been around lately, or cared for that matter). Being able to speak your mind on a forum without fear of retribution is a wonderful thing, however, many posts on this forum tend to lack substantial content, and just delve straight into product bashing.

I happen to be an avid Tangiers smoker, and as such, commonly catch a lot of shit by a certain group of members who feel that my choice of tobacco is inferior. I've seen multiple threads bringing up Tangiers (as an example) in which people ask questions such as "How to acclimate", and there are MULTIPLE responses that say "By throwing it in the trash". These kinds of posts are spiteful, unhelpful, and ultimately drive members to seek answers outside of HP. Tangiers being just one example, this happens on relatively frequent occasion with multiple products. (Please note that I'm not saying I have never done this, we all have our faults, Im sure if you dig through my post history you'll find a few posts that just tell someone a product is trash, however, rarely with a widely established brand, and I don't go out of my way to deliberately post in a thread I know I have no interest in being a part of.)

I know that the staff are overwhelmed with a large user base to pay attention to as well as managing their own personal lives and of course, only so many hours exist in a day, however blatant unhelpful posting to state your opinion isnt necessary, and it just trashes a thread that COULD have provided a useful response without trying to bait someone into a flame war.


Part 2: The HP Staffs response.

Obviously while getting one side of the story, the other goes often overlooked or unstated. After seeing the number of times that a vendor has deliberately broken vendor rules, I can understand the HP Staffs reluctance to retain John as an active vendor. You'll find no argument from me on their decision, as my personal opinion has no effect on the situation and I can still choose to buy from whomever I like.

In regards to product and reviews, I would ask that while the Staff has banned HJ as a listed vendor, we should still be allowed to say things such as "Im smoking from a Narbish Hose", "Im using ******* Hookah Natural Coals", ect. Blocking us from mentioning any products related to John could be a potential harm to the community, as many of us feel that he provides an extremely worthwhile set of products that are justified in monetary investment.

Second, while Im not sure that this will either A) Happen or B) Anyone else agrees with me, I would like to see some kind of Rule set put into place for Video Reviews. Video Intros like Sams that blatantly rep a product (How it was obtained is irregardless, doesnt matter if you bought it, stole it, got comped, ect.) create an air of distrust among some members. While its within Sams, or anyones right for that matter, to say they love a product, perhaps we should avoid allowing people to put advertisements, per say, in their videos. Endorsements are welcomed when a product is solid and reputable, but I think needing to state that something is amazing with a link to the companies webpage in every single review is excessive. Constantly promoting a product in this fashion does, indeed, make it look like you're receiving some form of compensation for promoting their products on the web, whether you are or not.

In closing, I'd just like to say that the HP community has been a long term source of enjoyment for me, I've gathered a lot of information, I've made quite a few online friends, and I've certainly tried things I would never had tried before had I not been here. I wish everyone at HP well, and as a community I hope that HP stays strong, the members stay objective, and as always this remains a forum by hookah smokers, for hookah smokers.

Thanks to Sam and the Staff for taking good care of the place.
  #94  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:54 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Jride, while you are free to have your opinions and express them it's not looked well upon to be "murkin". I believe that is how you phrased it. Trolling is looked down upon in the forums and intentionally trying to excite people falls in that category. I've liked you and this kind of behavior really makes me sad. I thought I had been a fair and kind friend to you and everyone here. Attacking the forum that I have been a part of so passionately is an attack at me.

Please just enjoy the peace we have been able to build here.
  #95  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 01:58 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

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Originally Posted by Jride View Post
Im sorry admins and moderators but honestly...

John has his side of the story, Sam has his side of the story. We as members will never know who is right and who is wrong and we should never pick sides and say "No one should ever buy from John again, yada yada"

And HP making a public announcement is stirring up the controversy.

I believe that every member should just keep doing what their doing rather than listening to anyone on either side of the story. If you like **********, then keep buying from him, if you never liked him, then dont. Of course someone is going to be a little bias on their side of the product. EVERYONE is.. yes including Sambooka.

Samb, I noticed a few weeks ago how you started having a Coco-Nara ad in the middle of your HP intro that says "FOR THE BEST COALS, VISIT COCO-NARA.US" is that because they give you free coals? Or do you just like those coals so much you want to advertise it for free? I believe having a coco-nara ad is a little bias. What makes them the best coals Sam, because you said so? And i notice you plug coconara.us on the website everytime you can.. So cmon now!

This site is supposedly by hookah smokers for hookah smokers.. right? Well why are you doing advertising on your own personal "non-bias" videos? I think its wrong personally. Theres another video reviewer out on a different forum thats been around for awhile, not gonna say his name but he does the same thing with ShishaCo coals and has an ad in his intro. I guarantee the dude is getting free coals and thats bias as hell in my opinion.
cheers...couldn't have said it better !
  #96  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

HookahWaffle, I was wondering where you were.

A well worded and thought out response. Thanks for taking the time to do that. Thank you for the understanding and suggestions as well.
  #97  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 02:00 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by HookahWaffle View Post
Well now that we have seen this all finally play out, I guess I'll jump in and offer my own two cents for what its worth.

After sitting on the fence for quite some time, listening to both sides of the argument, and seeing this response by the HP Staff, I think there's a few points that I'd like to bring up, assuming that both parties are being truthful, without slander or falsifying information :

Part 1 : Johns Reponse

John Feels that he has been unfairly bashed on over the course of the last month or so, and with that, I agree to *some* extent. There have been posts, by members and staff alike, in threads relating to John and his products that have no place other than to serve as a bash against someone trying to discuss a product.

However I feel that this has been, lately, a recurring trend at HP over the last few months, and has contributed to my reluctant desire to continue to be a part of the community (For anyone who noticed that I havent been around lately, or cared for that matter). Being able to speak your mind on a forum without fear of retribution is a wonderful thing, however, many posts on this forum tend to lack substantial content, and just delve straight into product bashing.

I happen to be an avid Tangiers smoker, and as such, commonly catch a lot of shit by a certain group of members who feel that my choice of tobacco is inferior. I've seen multiple threads bringing up Tangiers (as an example) in which people ask questions such as "How to acclimate", and there are MULTIPLE responses that say "By throwing it in the trash". These kinds of posts are spiteful, unhelpful, and ultimately drive members to seek answers outside of HP. Tangiers being just one example, this happens on relatively frequent occasion with multiple products. (Please note that I'm not saying I have never done this, we all have our faults, Im sure if you dig through my post history you'll find a few posts that just tell someone a product is trash, however, rarely with a widely established brand, and I don't go out of my way to deliberately post in a thread I know I have no interest in being a part of.)

I know that the staff are overwhelmed with a large user base to pay attention to as well as managing their own personal lives and of course, only so many hours exist in a day, however blatant unhelpful posting to state your opinion isnt necessary, and it just trashes a thread that COULD have provided a useful response without trying to bait someone into a flame war.


Part 2: The HP Staffs response.

Obviously while getting one side of the story, the other goes often overlooked or unstated. After seeing the number of times that a vendor has deliberately broken vendor rules, I can understand the HP Staffs reluctance to retain John as an active vendor. You'll find no argument from me on their decision, as my personal opinion has no effect on the situation and I can still choose to buy from whomever I like.

In regards to product and reviews, I would ask that while the Staff has banned HJ as a listed vendor, we should still be allowed to say things such as "Im smoking from a Narbish Hose", "Im using ******* Hookah Natural Coals", ect. Blocking us from mentioning any products related to John could be a potential harm to the community, as many of us feel that he provides an extremely worthwhile set of products that are justified in monetary investment.

Second, while Im not sure that this will either A) Happen or B) Anyone else agrees with me, I would like to see some kind of Rule set put into place for Video Reviews. Video Intros like Sams that blatantly rep a product (How it was obtained is irregardless, doesnt matter if you bought it, stole it, got comped, ect.) create an air of distrust among some members. While its within Sams, or anyones right for that matter, to say they love a product, perhaps we should avoid allowing people to put advertisements, per say, in their videos. Endorsements are welcomed when a product is solid and reputable, but I think needing to state that something is amazing with a link to the companies webpage in every single review is excessive. Constantly promoting a product in this fashion does, indeed, make it look like you're receiving some form of compensation for promoting their products on the web, whether you are or not.

In closing, I'd just like to say that the HP community has been a long term source of enjoyment for me, I've gathered a lot of information, I've made quite a few online friends, and I've certainly tried things I would never had tried before had I not been here. I wish everyone at HP well, and as a community I hope that HP stays strong, the members stay objective, and as always this remains a forum by hookah smokers, for hookah smokers.

Thanks to Sam and the Staff for taking good care of the place.
Hookah pro has been a great source and is the best place to learn about hookah and I agree that John has broken rules and should be banned. Now that being said there are a lot of good points here. No disrespect to anyone especially sambooka but in a way I do fear the mod squad (joke) in a way if I go against there views I might be in trouble.

Last edited by davidbondok; April 2nd, 2010 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Someone said it better man me!
  #98  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 02:02 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by HookahWaffle View Post
<snip>There have been posts, by members and staff alike, in threads relating to John and his products that have no place other than to serve as a bash against someone trying to discuss a product.

However I feel that this has been, lately, a recurring trend at HP over the last few months, and has contributed to my reluctant desire to continue to be a part of the community (For anyone who noticed that I havent been around lately, or cared for that matter). Being able to speak your mind on a forum without fear of retribution is a wonderful thing, however, many posts on this forum tend to lack substantial content, and just delve straight into product bashing.

I happen to be an avid Tangiers smoker, and as such, commonly catch a lot of shit by a certain group of members who feel that my choice of tobacco is inferior. I've seen multiple threads bringing up Tangiers (as an example) in which people ask questions such as "How to acclimate", and there are MULTIPLE responses that say "By throwing it in the trash". These kinds of posts are spiteful, unhelpful, and ultimately drive members to seek answers outside of HP. Tangiers being just one example, this happens on relatively frequent occasion with multiple products. (Please note that I'm not saying I have never done this, we all have our faults, Im sure if you dig through my post history you'll find a few posts that just tell someone a product is trash, however, rarely with a widely established brand, and I don't go out of my way to deliberately post in a thread I know I have no interest in being a part of.)

I know that the staff are overwhelmed with a large user base to pay attention to as well as managing their own personal lives and of course, only so many hours exist in a day, however blatant unhelpful posting to state your opinion isnt necessary, and it just trashes a thread that COULD have provided a useful response without trying to bait someone into a flame war.<snip>
You bring up an interesting point Waffle that I think deserves some attention. Since we don't want to go too off topic let me leave it at this, I certainly hope you raise your concerns again with both the Mod staff and the community in its own thread because I think its worth discussing.
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  #99  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Well he did violate many things, not cool...
  #100  
Old April 2nd, 2010, 02:10 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidbondok View Post
Hookah pro has been a great source and is the best place to learn about hookah and I agree that John has broken rules and should be banned. Now that being said there are a lot of good points here. No disrespect to anyone especially sambooka but in a way I do fear the mod squad (joke) in a way if I go against there views I might be in trouble.
That's not much of a joke lol. There is no reason to fear any reprimand so long as you are respectful and don't intentionally hurt the community and it's members. You are free to have your own opinions. We are not some collective consciousness that has the same opinions. There isn't much we all agree on regarding products actually lol.

Our most important goal is making this a safe and pleasant place for you guys. Sadly some people take great pleasure in mixing things up and trying to dismantle the work of others for no other reason than because it's something to do. Those people are not welcomed here.
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