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Forum Announcement: Regarding Hookah John

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  #201  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Eh, I have said it before and I'll say it again: ********** is the only vendor I use regardless of his status on this forum.

At the same time I can understand why he was banned and see it as needed.

Though I do hope he can come back to HP!

Kinda made me sad because I was hoping HJ would pick up SS shisha line and sell it on his site =/ (Fucking Tx taxes -.-)
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  #202  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by necco View Post
(there's a hookahpro shoutout in Rock Band 3 which drops in december btw hint hint )
WHA...?!
  #203  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

i haven't been on in awhile... but i knew i needed to double check the circumstances of this after i got hj's email. all i can say is this is very disheartening. in reality many people are going to be affected by this. this forum will be hurt by a large amount of members flocking to john's forum, john not having a good reputation after this incident, and the consumers of hookahs and hookah products all very confused and frustrated

i have enjoyed every transaction ive had from hj personally, and im not sure whether i will cancel my own business with him. i understand your relationship now though sambooka, that is very unfortunate and i can understand that you would rather rid john's business from your site all together after this headache. sadly though his products are all widely used by this forum, eliminating all traces of his presence won't come quickly or possibly at all. personally, until i find a problem myself i cannot guarantee a direct change in my own purchasing. (believe me im not a fan boy, im just a little frustrated that this issue has resulted like this >_<)

my only other issue is i feel that going against the grain and completely eliminating all his products from being reviewed is hurtful to the community as well. i thought possibly referring to his products under another name will eliminate promotion for his product but also allow users that are truly interested in a specific product that they have all the information before purchasing it. there are already a large amount of members using trademarked CHC's or specialized narbish hoses.

im only looking for the most peaceful resolution. don't hurt the users, hp. we could be the bigger people here and just keep our own opinions and leave john's promotion for his own headaches.
  #204  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 04:54 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu ronin View Post
WHA...?!
He works for Harmonix in Massachusetts.
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  #205  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

wtf no wonder necco is friggin loaded lol
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  #206  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 04:59 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by JiX' View Post
my only other issue is i feel that going against the grain and completely eliminating all his products from being reviewed is hurtful to the community as well. i thought possibly referring to his products under another name will eliminate promotion for his product but also allow users that are truly interested in a specific product that they have all the information before purchasing it. there are already a large amount of members using trademarked CHC's or specialized narbish hoses.

im only looking for the most peaceful resolution. don't hurt the users, hp. we could be the bigger people here and just keep our own opinions and leave john's promotion for his own headaches.
I honestly think the reason they are having a hard time is the fact that he is now banned and his coals have his name. If you use a narbish or an alien bowl then that is not a problem to say. But when using his coals most people call them CH Nats. That is promoting him from this community. Take that with a grain of salt because I don't know what the mods are discussing, but that is my assumption.
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  #207  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 05:06 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

we are VERY close to making the final announcement regarding his products. Again, please be patient. These decisions are made by the entire staff and take abit of time.
  #208  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 05:21 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

dam. had no idea.
  #209  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 05:24 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

I'm going to have to agree with Jride. Honestly, everyone has an opinion, biased or not. Who cares if it's biased, it's still an opinion. Now I agree if you're being biased to promote something that isn't so great from the perspective of other people, then it's obviously not that great, and let's leave it at that. Personally, I haven't purchased anything from HJ but from what I've heard, he's a great vendor. There good and bad sides about everything. I'd just like to state that neither this forum nor the law is stopping me from buying anything from him, even if I do buy from him.

Hookah was made to be enjoyable, so let's all fathom that and get along, please..?
  #210  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 05:27 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaltz View Post
I'm going to have to agree with Jride. Honestly, everyone has an opinion, biased or not. Who cares if it's biased, it's still an opinion. Now I agree if you're being biased to promote something that isn't so great from the perspective of other people, then it's obviously not that great, and let's leave it at that. Personally, I haven't purchased anything from HJ but from what I've heard, he's a great vendor. There good and bad sides about everything. I'd just like to state that neither this forum nor the law is stopping me from buying anything from him, even if I do buy from him.

Hookah was made to be enjoyable, so let's all fathom that and get along, please..?
Like we have said many many times and its also in the OP we are not saying you cant buy from HJ!! You have every right to buy where and from whom you want!
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  #211  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by abu ronin View Post
we are VERY close to making the final announcement regarding his products. Again, please be patient. These decisions are made by the entire staff and take abit of time.
Take your time broski. I for one have had enough drama to last me...eh about a few years.
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  #212  
Old April 3rd, 2010, 05:37 PM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGPOPPA View Post
Like we have said many many times and its also in the OP we are not saying you cant buy from HJ!! You have every right to buy where and from who you want!
I totally understand that BP. However, it's very hard constricting opinions. What if John comes up with one of the greatest products introduced to the Hookah industry? I'd rather not buy something and enjoy it for myself; I'd like to be heard and voice my opinion to make someone else's hookah session much more enjoyable. It would have a huge impact especially for the traffic of this forum. If he comes up with a bad product, than so be it. I have just read this here:

Quote:
in reality many people are going to be affected by this. this forum will be hurt by a large amount of members flocking to john's forum
And I'd like to say that this is so true. Not only that, but it will hurt HookahPro SEO. In my honest opinion (and have my word, this is just an opinion), I thought I can come to HP and relax, without all that drama, and get the best out of Hookah. Don't get me wrong, it's a great place with awesome members and community throughout the time I've been here, and I'll continually be here, you won't have to worry about that. Again, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, people are not all the same.

Please don't take this personal, as it is just an opinion.

Last edited by MikeWaltz; April 3rd, 2010 at 05:40 PM.
  #213  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:00 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaltz View Post
I totally understand that BP. However, it's very hard constricting opinions. What if John comes up with one of the greatest products introduced to the Hookah industry? I'd rather not buy something and enjoy it for myself; I'd like to be heard and voice my opinion to make someone else's hookah session much more enjoyable. It would have a huge impact especially for the traffic of this forum. If he comes up with a bad product, than so be it.<SNIP>
Mike, I agree with you. This is exactly why the Mods are working on guidelines for how do deal with products "unique" to HJ.

The reality is, we get a lot of people who ask; "Which is better Narbish or Razan?", or "Hey, why can't I get my Alien Phunnel to smoke right?", or even "Do you like CH or BRAND X better?".

Then there are the people who want to do a video and say "Check out how awesome my Alien Phunnel is! It saves me tons of shisha and smokes great!" or "Wow these CH Instants smell when you light them!" (They do, I have them, and even HJ says don't light them indoors!), or "I have both the Narbish and Nammor and they seem to work about the same."

We still want to be able to serve and answer those questions and provide that information because, despite all the daytime TV/Jerry Springer drama of this thread, this forum is about servicing the Hookah population.

The hard part, which I am sure is why the decision is so hard, is that the Mods don't want to cut off their noses to spite their faces. (Thanks for the phrase Mom!) They recognize that banning the mention of anything uniquely HJ will

A) Hurt people new to the hookah scene since it eliminates the ability to discuss a rather prominant portion of entries in several different categories of Hookah products.

B) Hurt the Prosumer who will get upset they don't get to express their Love/Hate of particular products. (Imagine having an Alien, loving it, using it all the time and then trying to do shisha reviews without mentioning what bowl you are using!)

C) Hurt the vendors who are sponsors of the website. (If I was a vendor and you banned the mention of one of my big sellers on a website, why exactly would I continue to support it?)

We just need to give SamB and the Mod staff a little more time to tack down the guidelines and hopefully things should go back to some semblance of normality. (Not that anyone here is actually normal.) And I too hope one day soon that this issue can be reconciled, but until then, rules are rules.
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  #214  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

^^^^what he said^^^^
  #215  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:06 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

I've been lurking the forums for the past week, and I guess all my questions have been answered! Thanks for clearing that up Sam!
  #216  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

I read every single post in this thread... x.x

What some of you guys aren't realizing is that John got banned for lots of reasons, but the biggest reason he got banned was for breaking the rules... Take away all of the bias reasons and there are still enough violations to get him banned.

If I broke the rules that John broke, I'd get banned. Thats it, plain and simple.

As for the comments about SamB getting free stuff from CocoNara.. I personally don't think he is. But if he is, so what? Just because someone says something is the best, doesn't mean you have to buy it.
Do you run to the store everytime you see a commercial on TV saying that a product is a "Must have" or "The best"? No. So why would you do that here?
There are a couple examples (The e-mail from John about his coals smelling, and Bassem's post) That prove SamB isnt being bought by all the supporting vendors.

Its really not worth all the drama. Its not hard to not talk about something. If you have a Narbish hose, say "I'm using a Narbish" just dont add "Purchased from HJ" if a member decides they want that hose, they can look it up themselves, we are all adults here, we all know how to use Google.

And don't take everything to extremes, just because John is banned doesn't mean you have to go edit or remove anything with his name in it. Just don't post anything with his name in the future. Its really not hard.. Trust me.

I love HookahPro, I am somone who believes strongly in my personal rights, you mess with my rights and I'm gonna tell you off, but I've never thought that HP violates my rights. Rules are rules, SamB made the rules in a way that HE thought would keep HIS website (Paid for by him, out of HIS pocket.) running smoothly. If you don't like the rules, don't stick around. There is no need to try and force your opinions on others.

Just my thoughts on everything. I know its a little late, LOL. Been busy. :]
  #217  
Old April 4th, 2010, 12:38 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

As for mentioning his products, his coals are already carried by several other vendors. The Narbish has been picked up by one and will most likely be picked others. And if the initial reception of the Alien bowl is any indication, it will follow suit as well. Eventually this will become a non-issue.
  #218  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:13 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Alright, well, even though my opinion really means nothing to anyone, I feel I should share it.

I've looked into this earlier today, taking in as much information about the situation as I could find, and after the rest of the day, and a few beers, it's sunk in pretty well.

Whether it be HP vs HJ or SamB vs HJ... there is no winner in this fight. Only losers. A lot of them actually, as all the losers are us, the customer and general forum user. I have no strong pull in either direction on this issue, and as someone in the middle, all I can think about it how much of a loss this is for the consumers of the site. I feel that all vendors should have the ability to join in normal discussions with forum members, and each vendor has a specialized name saying they are a vendor so distinguishing between vendors and members is not difficult at all, and I feel that it is an insult to my intelligence thinking that one vendors opinion could alter ordering plans. And even using the review section as a point of reference, I never trust them 100% because of course it is all opinion, but when taking in many many opinions, they form something that is more factual, so if 20 people say one thing about a product, and 2 say the opposite, odds are the majority will have it.

But I also feel, that if vendors are not permitted to be active members and share opinions, that that should apply to those who are in a position of authority, whether it be moderator or admin. The title alone could mislead new hookah smokers to listen to you over other members who may have just as much, or even more experience in this area than them. Vendors are here, and exist, because they are passionate about hookah. You moderators are here and in your position because you are passionate about hookah. We are all here reading this, concerned about the future of the site, because we are passionate about hookah.

This all just seems to be a clash of egos to me. I am not defending John, nor am I defending HP, but I believe 100% that this is a complete disservice to the consumers, and mainly the new consumers just finding this site or who will in the near future, as John has always had a great selection of products, good service, and the whole nine yards. Though there are many other great vendors here on this site, banning one of the favorite vendors here (not saying he is my favorite) for infractions, that frankly seem way blown out of proportion, seems ridiculous.

And though I don't agree with how John spoke about Social Smoke shisha, if worded better and in less of a rush to be written, I feel like his point would have been driven home better. The same point that normal members brought up in the same thread, or similar threads, about the validity of the claims of made in America shisha,

Well there was my completely unbiased review of the situation. Now it is off the bed because this alcohol is starting to make my head hurt.
  #219  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:22 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnwhyte View Post
Alright, well, even though my opinion really means nothing to anyone, I feel I should share it.

I've looked into this earlier today, taking in as much information about the situation as I could find, and after the rest of the day, and a few beers, it's sunk in pretty well.

Whether it be HP vs HJ or SamB vs HJ... there is no winner in this fight. Only losers. A lot of them actually, as all the losers are us, the customer and general forum user. I have no strong pull in either direction on this issue, and as someone in the middle, all I can think about it how much of a loss this is for the consumers of the site. I feel that all vendors should have the ability to join in normal discussions with forum members, and each vendor has a specialized name saying they are a vendor so distinguishing between vendors and members is not difficult at all, and I feel that it is an insult to my intelligence thinking that one vendors opinion could alter ordering plans. And even using the review section as a point of reference, I never trust them 100% because of course it is all opinion, but when taking in many many opinions, they form something that is more factual, so if 20 people say one thing about a product, and 2 say the opposite, odds are the majority will have it.

But I also feel, that if vendors are not permitted to be active members and share opinions, that that should apply to those who are in a position of authority, whether it be moderator or admin. The title alone could mislead new hookah smokers to listen to you over other members who may have just as much, or even more experience in this area than them. Vendors are here, and exist, because they are passionate about hookah. You moderators are here and in your position because you are passionate about hookah. We are all here reading this, concerned about the future of the site, because we are passionate about hookah.

This all just seems to be a clash of egos to me. I am not defending John, nor am I defending HP, but I believe 100% that this is a complete disservice to the consumers, and mainly the new consumers just finding this site or who will in the near future, as John has always had a great selection of products, good service, and the whole nine yards. Though there are many other great vendors here on this site, banning one of the favorite vendors here (not saying he is my favorite) for infractions, that frankly seem way blown out of proportion, seems ridiculous.

And though I don't agree with how John spoke about Social Smoke shisha, if worded better and in less of a rush to be written, I feel like his point would have been driven home better. The same point that normal members brought up in the same thread, or similar threads, about the validity of the claims of made in America shisha,

Well there was my completely unbiased review of the situation. Now it is off the bed because this alcohol is starting to make my head hurt.
Well put and I agree with what you said.
  #220  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:29 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Can I have a cookie?

NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM!

On a side note while you douhces have been drama bombing each other, I have been enjoying Kansas City Hookah and BBQ at it's finest.


This post is intended to distract from the primary post and is considered trolling in the worst way. AKA take a deep breath, lighten up, and realize that drama only causes kittens to die, like masturbating with 80 grit sand paper.
  #221  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
Can I have a cookie?

NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM!

On a side note while you douhces have been drama bombing each other, I have been enjoying Kansas City Hookah and BBQ at it's finest.


This post is intended to distract from the primary post and is considered trolling in the worst way. AKA take a deep breath, lighten up, and realize that drama only causes kittens to die, like masturbating with 80 grit sand paper.
I and every other guy on here shudders at that last thought. OUCH!!!
  #222  
Old April 4th, 2010, 01:58 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

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Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
drama only causes kittens to die, like masturbating with 80 grit sand paper.
what the fuck...
  #223  
Old April 4th, 2010, 02:36 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

wow what a read.. took me about 45 mins.. lol.. DAMMM i cant believe this..
  #224  
Old April 4th, 2010, 04:05 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

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Originally Posted by DRMALIKIA View Post
...like masturbating with 80 grit sand paper.
Hey man! No Pain - No Gain!
  #225  
Old April 4th, 2010, 06:58 AM
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Default Re: Forum Announcement: Regarding **********

Question, can we still put vendor reviews for him up in our youtube channel if we don't link him here? I understand the reason for banning HJ but as critics Madwolf, Puck and I have a firm policy that every sample we receive gets a fair review no matter who its from. I can't justify making an exception to this rule since Hj has been nothing but good to the three of us.
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