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Smoking Ban in Michigan

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  #26  
Old April 28th, 2010, 08:04 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

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Originally Posted by iMaD View Post
There is hookah lounge near where I live and it is located in a strip mall. The owne(s) just "happened" to own the "Take out" resturaunt next door so before you go into the lounge stop by next door, order food, pay for it and they deliver it next door to your table.
Exactly what I'm talking about.
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  #27  
Old April 28th, 2010, 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

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Originally Posted by JediSpam View Post
lounges are 95% no good so not that big of a deal
Not the point at all. Yes I would in general much rather smoke at home but the problem is that crap rolls down hill. First they ban it in places where people are eating, then smoking in public all together, then smoking anywhere, at all, ever, even in your own home. That's the problem people say oh well it doesn't effect me because I don't do this or that, without realizing that an infringement on anyone's rights is an infringement on your own rights.
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  #28  
Old April 28th, 2010, 08:53 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

yeah i see where you're coming from. i guess the progression of the bill would be an issue to me and didn't consider that
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  #29  
Old April 28th, 2010, 09:48 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

[FONT=Verdana]I live in Michigan and the new law will suck. We have enough issues keeping jobs around here without forcing businesses to close. [/FONT]
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  #30  
Old April 28th, 2010, 10:05 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

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Originally Posted by 03rivers View Post
That's the problem people say oh well it doesn't effect me because I don't do this or that, without realizing that an infringement on anyone's rights is an infringement on your own rights.
Yes, agreed.
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  #31  
Old April 28th, 2010, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

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Originally Posted by ariberns View Post
damn it michigan, now you.
oklahoma is up to nonsense with rules right now
arizona is totally nuts

what the freaking heck!!!!!

Welcome to My world citizens of USA the Politician who pushed for this smoking Ban here drank her liver into oblivion + the donor liver she got and then went up in a cloud of smoke at her cremation.
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  #32  
Old April 28th, 2010, 11:42 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

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Originally Posted by iMaD View Post
I can understand that some people do not like smoke and yes there should be places where people can sit down and eat without inhaling second hand smoke, for example children and pregnant women. The problem was resturaunts had smoking sections but those weren't really enclosed or isolated so it was sort of useless. Next thing you have to worry about is taxes. I am not a regular smoker but I feel for people who smoke on a regular basis (i.e cigarettes). A pack of Marlboro now cost $8.5 in the city of Chicago.
You are missing the point. In the U.S. a right exists in theory which says you something called "freedom of association" and if one takes the time to look into the matter it means that business owners as well the patrons have (well, had actually) a right to be around (or not be around) anyone they choose. In the old days people used to be able to go a place called "the non smoking section" if they wanted to be free of smoke. Likewise people that hated smoke had the option to attend restaurants owned by people that hated smoke and didn't allow it in their establishments. In other other words people got to do what suited them and be around the things they wanted to be around. These days if you own property (say a business) that is open to the public you can't decide to allow smoke in which means that you don't really have property rights.

These days no one has the right to be around tobacco in public because would be commissars have decided that their political agenda matters more then your rights of freedom of association.

In some areas of the states smoking is banned within 10 more feet of public buildings meaning that for all practical purposes you can't legally smoke outside. Other places ban smoking public parks. In some ares you can't smoke in duplexes or apartments by law. If you ever get into a custody battle and you smoke you stand a huge chance of losing your kids when all other things are equal.

The commissars have also have decided that since they don't approve of our use of legal products that they will tax them to such an extent that they can't be afforded by normal people. I recall that at one time Americans rioted and went to war to end taxes far lower on tea and stamps at a time when the tax burden was tiny portion of you face today. Clearly, Americans don't really care very much about freedom anyone more since it's just a bromide rather then something people understand or will fight for.

The fact that the American economy is melting down doesn't matter to the commissars. That is obvious when you think about the jobs lost in the tobacco sector and loss of sales tax revenue so in the end ideology trumps economics and your rights.

As to second hand smoke, well basically the science behind it is about as credible as the science behind the piltdown man (look it up!) but politically motivated. If you want to read up on check some of the material i've cited on the subject. I guess I could re-post some of it if the interest exists.
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  #33  
Old April 29th, 2010, 12:57 AM
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Default Re: Smoking Ban in Michigan

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Originally Posted by Dusty62 View Post
And they wonder why the Michigan economy is shooting downhill like a runaway rollercoaster . . . politicians . . . I was led to believe that as long as your business income was at least 80% from tobacco and/or tobacco related products that you could maintain the status. However, the removal of all food related licenses is new to me. That really sucks. Just one more reason why, as soon as I am able, about two years down the road, I am heading out of Michigan as fast as I can and not looking back . . . I say, let her fall. The MI gov is gonna absolutely kill any possibility of this state ever coming out of the financial mess it's in anyway. I mean, come on . . . the small business tax that what, only MI and a couple other states still pursue . . . just one more reason to NOT do business in MI. Seez ya.

dus'
Ya 75% makes it so you can smoke in your place but there is this stupid little amendment at the end of the bill that is like "oh ya by the way that doesn't get you off the hook for a food license". And to think the governor that signed this bill is up as a candidate for supreme court.... the governor of one of the WORST economic states.... Damn politicians!
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  #34  
Old April 29th, 2010, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

BZ's Hajo. You hit the nail right on the head. Americans "had" rights at one time and were willing to stand up for, and if necessary, fight for, those rights. I am not sure where or when that situation turned around but as it goes these days, the vast majority of the American population would rather "just let the government handle it," rather than actually take active roles in how anything works here in this country. This has been reflected in the voting which has allowed the government to literally take control of what used to be rights and freedoms here. Yes, part of the Michigan deal states that you aren't allowed to smoke within a certain distance of a public buildings areas where air can enter the building, therefore allowing your smoke to enter the building. Hmmm, that means that nowhere on the sidewalk is legal . . . perhaps standing directly in the middle of the street will place you outside of the illegal zone . . . Arrgghh . . . one could go on and on and on and on . . . and it will never change until the people as a whole are willing to take back control of the government rather than allow the government to have control over them . . . America is no different than any other country where the government reigns supreme over the people and regulates per agenda rather than the voice of the people as a whole. Just here in America different control methods are used, or rather, the methods are "masked" very well so that the average "joe" doesn't recognize what is going on, or perhaps, more realistically, the average "joe" chooses to not recognize it because then he/she would feel obligated to do something and that would mean actually taking an active part. What? I gotta actually DO something? Naw . . . let the government handle it . . . Smoke happy.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
You are missing the point. In the U.S. a right exists in theory which says you something called "freedom of association" and if one takes the time to look into the matter it means that business owners as well the patrons have (well, had actually) a right to be around (or not be around) anyone they choose. In the old days people used to be able to go a place called "the non smoking section" if they wanted to be free of smoke. Likewise people that hated smoke had the option to attend restaurants owned by people that hated smoke and didn't allow it in their establishments. In other other words people got to do what suited them and be around the things they wanted to be around. These days if you own property (say a business) that is open to the public you can't decide to allow smoke in which means that you don't really have property rights.

These days no one has the right to be around tobacco in public because would be commissars have decided that their political agenda matters more then your rights of freedom of association.

In some areas of the states smoking is banned within 10 more feet of public buildings meaning that for all practical purposes you can't legally smoke outside. Other places ban smoking public parks. In some ares you can't smoke in duplexes or apartments by law. If you ever get into a custody battle and you smoke you stand a huge chance of losing your kids when all other things are equal.

The commissars have also have decided that since they don't approve of our use of legal products that they will tax them to such an extent that they can't be afforded by normal people. I recall that at one time Americans rioted and went to war to end taxes far lower on tea and stamps at a time when the tax burden was tiny portion of you face today. Clearly, Americans don't really care very much about freedom anyone more since it's just a bromide rather then something people understand or will fight for.

The fact that the American economy is melting down doesn't matter to the commissars. That is obvious when you think about the jobs lost in the tobacco sector and loss of sales tax revenue so in the end ideology trumps economics and your rights.

As to second hand smoke, well basically the science behind it is about as credible as the science behind the piltdown man (look it up!) but politically motivated. If you want to read up on check some of the material i've cited on the subject. I guess I could re-post some of it if the interest exists.
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  #35  
Old April 29th, 2010, 07:22 AM
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Default Re: Smoking Ban in Michigan

We actually have two active threads on this topic . . . is it possible, maybe, for mod to "combine" the two threads and that way the info on each can be shared in one spot? Maybe it's not a good idea . . . just a thought. Smoke happy.

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  #36  
Old April 29th, 2010, 07:43 AM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
You are missing the point. In the U.S. a right exists in theory which says you something called "freedom of association" and if one takes the time to look into the matter it means that business owners as well the patrons have (well, had actually) a right to be around (or not be around) anyone they choose. In the old days people used to be able to go a place called "the non smoking section" if they wanted to be free of smoke. Likewise people that hated smoke had the option to attend restaurants owned by people that hated smoke and didn't allow it in their establishments. In other other words people got to do what suited them and be around the things they wanted to be around. These days if you own property (say a business) that is open to the public you can't decide to allow smoke in which means that you don't really have property rights.

These days no one has the right to be around tobacco in public because would be commissars have decided that their political agenda matters more then your rights of freedom of association.

In some areas of the states smoking is banned within 10 more feet of public buildings meaning that for all practical purposes you can't legally smoke outside. Other places ban smoking public parks. In some ares you can't smoke in duplexes or apartments by law. If you ever get into a custody battle and you smoke you stand a huge chance of losing your kids when all other things are equal.

The commissars have also have decided that since they don't approve of our use of legal products that they will tax them to such an extent that they can't be afforded by normal people. I recall that at one time Americans rioted and went to war to end taxes far lower on tea and stamps at a time when the tax burden was tiny portion of you face today. Clearly, Americans don't really care very much about freedom anyone more since it's just a bromide rather then something people understand or will fight for.

The fact that the American economy is melting down doesn't matter to the commissars. That is obvious when you think about the jobs lost in the tobacco sector and loss of sales tax revenue so in the end ideology trumps economics and your rights.

As to second hand smoke, well basically the science behind it is about as credible as the science behind the piltdown man (look it up!) but politically motivated. If you want to read up on check some of the material i've cited on the subject. I guess I could re-post some of it if the interest exists.
I mostly agree with you except for the part about the smoking section in food establishments. Segregating 2 or 3 tables in the corner and calling them smoking section was a joke. This is like when airlines had a smoking section in the back rows. After a couple of hours into the flight the whole plane smells like cigarettes. I'm not againt smokers cause I think I can be called one but the smell of cigarettes makes me wanna throw up. The other thing is "Sin Taxes" on alchahol, tobacco and gambling are the easiest to pass and usually they hit the lower income population the hardest.
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  #37  
Old April 29th, 2010, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

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Originally Posted by iMaD View Post
I mostly agree with you except for the part about the smoking section in food establishments. Segregating 2 or 3 tables in the corner and calling them smoking section was a joke. This is like when airlines had a smoking section in the back rows. After a couple of hours into the flight the whole plane smells like cigarettes. I'm not againt smokers cause I think I can be called one but the smell of cigarettes makes me wanna throw up. The other thing is "Sin Taxes" on alchahol, tobacco and gambling are the easiest to pass and usually they hit the lower income population the hardest.
Not to mention the fact that some people are allergic against somke, people have asthma, and second hand smoke causes cancer.

However, banning smoking in a hookah bar that serves food is just plain idiotic. If you're scared of second hand smoke, why eat at a hookah bar, a place where more people come to smoke than eat?
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  #38  
Old April 29th, 2010, 09:23 AM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

I agree with everyone!! It's not like they're selling illegal stuff or anything either. Hookah lounges are hookah lounges. If you don't like the smoke, go else where and leave us alone!
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  #39  
Old April 29th, 2010, 02:24 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

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Originally Posted by DaSebsch View Post
Not to mention the fact that some people are allergic against somke, people have asthma, and second hand smoke causes cancer.

However, banning smoking in a hookah bar that serves food is just plain idiotic. If you're scared of second hand smoke, why eat at a hookah bar, a place where more people come to smoke than eat?
I can't say Iím surprised that you don't grasp the simple reality of freedom of choice as it applies in this case given that you idolize a Stalinist mass murderer so i'll explain it again as simply as possible: If an establishment wishes to have non-smokers patronize it they must have a non-smoking section which makes a real effort to segregate smokers from non-smokers since a failure to do so means they lose the business of non-smokers. People had a choice in that area prior to the state decided otherwise and those of that respect liberty find that a negative development. Saying that a business owner isnít free to determine what sort of clients he is allowed to have violates his property rights and his freedom of association. Telling anyone that enjoys or at least doesnít mind the company of smokers that they arenít allowed to do in a public place violates the freedom of association for such peoples.

I've known lots of people that hated smoke and when we went out we never had a problem finding restaurants either maintained a functional non smoking section or an establishment in which the owner didnít allow smoking. My great many non-smoking friends simply never patronized places that didnít serve their needs just as I refuse to patronize an establishment that wonít allow me to enjoy my meal as I see fit. These days of course my wishes as a customer are active suppressed by state power in what was once properly call the West.

As to second smoke causing cancer, well, I suppose that is simply another example of how you support any and all junk science that restricts individual freedom and/or brings about higher taxes.
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  #40  
Old April 29th, 2010, 07:11 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

You're actually denying that second hand smoke causes cancer?

As for the rest of the post, go back and read what IMad wrote.
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  #41  
Old April 29th, 2010, 07:22 PM
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Default Re: Michigan hookah ban bill coming soon near you.

I manage a lounge in East Lansing MI.

First off the bill in no way harms current lounges that make over 75% of their profit in tobacco or tobacco paraphernalia. They are exempt from the bill other then some food license bull shit attached to the end of the bill

On May 1st we are losing our food license that is already paid in full that was supposed to be until the end of the year. Very unfortunate. The good news is although we are not allowed to serve any kind of prepared food or anything of that sort we can still served prepackaged non-hazardous foods which is a good 10% of our food anyway. We will just have to not serve our prepared food (wraps, hummus, deserts we make) and will have to start serving prepackaged stuff which isn't to bad.

As far as hookah being banned all together I think that is a little far. I do know a lot of "hookah caffes" will be abandoning hookah because most of their profit is from food and not from hookah. Since our lounge is pretty much focused on hookahs it will cause us to be a little more creative but actually is opening up some cool things. We will start carrying a lot more different kinds of tobacco as well as a lot of different kinds of hoses and hookahs. The lounges that focus on hookahs will be effected but should live on just as strong, I know ours will

Which reminds me if anyone is ever on MSU campus in Lansing make sure to stop by and say hi!
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