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Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

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  #1  
Old August 17th, 2008, 06:21 AM
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Default Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

It is no secret that the lobbyists employed by "Big Tobacco" are what is keeping cigarettes plentiful in the United States, which in turn, trickles down to the narghile market. In a way, I thank them for keeping the U.S. addicted to cheap cigarettes, therefore garnering more support against universal healthcare.

Nevermind that, though. That is the least of the evils we must worry about.

What if these companies began to tap into our niche market? What if they produced a cheap moa'ssel and mass-produced pipes, then unleashed them upon the American public?

The outcome would be disastrous. Due to wide-spread exposure, our humble hobby would become the latest targets of anti-smoking laws that were brought upon by the people who claim to know what is best for America, regardless of the fact that they are far out-of-touch with the citizens of this country.

Worse yet, if Socialized Medicine were to move on from nightmare to reality, it could possibly spell the death of tobacco use in America.

I fear for this country.

P.S. - Hajo, I await your reply.
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  #2  
Old August 17th, 2008, 09:38 AM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

maybe....just not in our lifetime.
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  #3  
Old August 17th, 2008, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

The mass produced pipes are already in play. But China is the one making them.
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  #4  
Old August 17th, 2008, 10:18 AM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

What if these companies began to tap into our niche market? What if they produced a cheap moa'ssel and mass-produced pipes, then unleashed them upon the American public?


in all honesty, i would move to california and talk eric(tangiers) into doing a hookah speakeasy, then we would sell the tangiers in their goverment overproduced containers =D
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  #5  
Old August 17th, 2008, 11:11 AM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

hmmm same thing im going with Speak in Vowels.. i smoke cigarettes and hookah and well... im sorry to say but i have an addiction.. but if some1 took cigs from me i wouldnt care because i rather have my hookah anyway.. but if some1 took my hookah from me or told me im not allowed to smoke it anymore.. i would ...probably cry then kill somebody..
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  #6  
Old August 17th, 2008, 11:26 AM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

No one has to live in america, hell i would rather live in Europe or Japan anyway. I would get out, that's all. When the going get's tough, the tough get going.

Do you know how easy it would be for Big Tobacco to eradicate all use of our hookahs? Make up bogus studies, push the government into passing laws. Some people are trying to keep cigarettes out, but i see more people then ever before (more young people as well) smoking cigarettes. Prime Time Cigar is selling to a young audience (they don't know how young i mean), and they use "Happy Hour" sweet mixed drink flavors to get the youth population on their side. I recently saw some odd contraption that is plastic and has a ball in the middle, and I am guessing it somehow reduces the negative effects of cigarette smoking?? If it happens, there really isn't much you can do. No one is truly allowed peaceful protesting, so that's out of the question.

Juno, one thing you didn't mention is that this is in fact America, people smoke cigarettes because they are lazy-ass mother fuckers. And now, people have even less money, so they are going to stick to their cigarettes because that is the cheapest way to ease their edginess. There are only a small group of people that actually care about what would happen to the hobby of hookah if what you are saying was to occur. Those voices are mostly all represented here. That's a small percentage of the over-all population, and we probably couldn't do much.
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  #7  
Old August 17th, 2008, 12:32 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

I don't know. Between health law suits and diversifying thier cig money and investing in other assets outside the tobacco class (i.e. RJR Nabisco having to have spun off the tobacco, its been awhile, but still applicable), I think Big Tobacco has bigger fish to fry, and indeed would try and enter the market rather than bring the whole thing down (I think they see the RIAA's futile efforts to prevent torrents, etc we've all seen how fruitless this is).

Again, I don't think they'll waste thier time. Hookah is probably on Big Tobacco's radar, I just think it will awhile before we see any tangible action. When we do, there will be enough people (like us at this site) to call BS on "Marlboro Red Shisha" or "Camel Turkish Blend Shisha Light".

I wouldn't worry about socialized health care (thats a shell game that will perpetuated forever), I would worry more about things like this:

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed...57462-new-york

Last edited by kingboyb; August 17th, 2008 at 12:39 PM.
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  #8  
Old August 17th, 2008, 12:50 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

id be headed to mexico man nice little beach shack and ill sell shit on e-bay and pay them 1 american doller a month or so for a car
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  #9  
Old August 17th, 2008, 12:52 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

having a cigarette takes as long, or maybe even LESS time than it does to setup my hookah LOL
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  #10  
Old August 17th, 2008, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

It would be a short walk for RJ Reynolds to get in the hookah business. I mean there are already hookahs with camels on them, why not their Camel? LOL
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  #11  
Old August 17th, 2008, 06:56 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

Ugh... too true...
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  #12  
Old August 18th, 2008, 12:43 AM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

That has always been my worst nightmare when looking into the hookah business. I hope this does not take place because I enjoy this wayyyyyy too much. It'd be like taking candy from a baby...
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  #13  
Old August 18th, 2008, 03:13 AM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post
Juno, one thing you didn't mention is that this is in fact America, people smoke cigarettes because they are lazy-ass mother fuckers. And now, people have even less money, so they are going to stick to their cigarettes because that is the cheapest way to ease their edginess.
Granted, this happened it wouldn't be the end of the world. Everyone would be trying to enjoy their cheap nargile, when we would be enjoying our authentic nargile to the fullest. Isn't it enough to just enjoy it as much as possible, or does it have to be a hobby only a certain amount of people can enjoy?

Smoking a cig, is easier than hookah for me. I spend 60+ hours a week at work, where hookahs aren't exactly embraced. I am not gonna run out to my car on a 15 minute break and set up my hookah and smoke it for 10 minutes, or stare at my quick light, like a shit-chucking ape when I could sit outside of the giant wal-mart building and get my nicotine
(at the expense of flavor, smoke content, and indulging in culture) from a stick that takes 3 seconds to light. Im not addicted to cigs, but I have them for the time saving.

Zen, it is pretty foolish to go out on a limb and say that people who smoke cigarettes are "lazy-ass mother fuckers" and I am kinda offended. I am by no means lazy, nor do I like hearing shit about cigarette smokers from the anti-tobacco nazi's and people on the forums who indulge in other forms of tobacco. What makes the people on these forums talking down about cigs and the people who smoke them, any different from the people who walk outside wal-mart and tell me "smoking cigs are bad".

Yes, I love hookah, and I would care if this shit happened, but I am not blowing it out of proportion, like everyone else. I can still enjoy me a nice nargile, some nice shisha tobacco, and some nice coals. When the day I can't have any of that arrives, then I will man my battle stations.

Last edited by larrypzlast; August 18th, 2008 at 03:17 AM.
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  #14  
Old August 22nd, 2008, 11:32 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

I donít see big tobacco companies ever getting into the narghile market in part because they never bothered with the premium cigar market when it was booming and vast fortunes were made. They didnít bother with premium cigars and they wonít bother with our hobby because both are very small relative to the size of the cigarette/crap cigar market. They also know that since our hobby is dominated by college kids it is a transitory market not worth major long term investments. They also realize that give the regulatory and tax environment for tobacco is lousy and the tobacco prohibitionists are already going after narghile stuff the long terms risks are very high. As a result of all these things tobacco companies will focus on non-tobacco markets and possibly stop selling tobacco in the West all together within the next 10 years.

All that said, big tobacco doesnít have any reason to tryand hurt our hobby because any anti-tobacco initiative will hurt them as well. Simple economics and risk avoidance explains why big tobacco will ignore narghiles just as it ignored premium cigars. Besides, as someone said the market for crap rigs has already been cornered by the PRC and itís simply impossible to beat them on price.
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  #15  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 01:12 AM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

well it would suck but then again maybe i would have a shop closer then an hour away from me to pick up some coals or shisha
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  #16  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 12:43 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

i dont think socialized medicine will get rid of tobacco in the country, maybe just jack the priced higher where Yankees are in charge but its america you wont take away the 2 things the country was founded on and with: guns and tobacco

i dont think we would be able to keep any quality if hookah be came as popular as cigs but at the same time maybe some of the big names in hookah now could get huge, or we would just have huge numbers of micro shisha makers like in the middle east. i expect there would be some cig makers that jump on this but i doubt they would take off just like was mentioned about cig companies not jumping into cigars, and the same reason that when any company tries to do sip when they make chew, or snus when they make cigs, it does ok but doesnt became a name.

-matt
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  #17  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 02:17 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

Wait...so...what your saying is...cigarettes are good...health care is bad...

EH?

Whats your argument?
I think anything is fine in moderation, but thats not what cigarettes are about, people get hooked on cigarettes because they smoke lots every day. Cigars/hookahs etc are fine because they arent something people do all day every day.
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  #18  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 03:13 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

Quote:
Originally Posted by squareben View Post
Wait...so...what your saying is...cigarettes are good...health care is bad...

EH?

Whats your argument?
I think anything is fine in moderation, but thats not what cigarettes are about, people get hooked on cigarettes because they smoke lots every day. Cigars/hookahs etc are fine because they arent something people do all day every day.
this is all in regards to hookah, hookah regulation, hookah, availability, and hookah quality.

cigarettes are good for us because that is the current target of anti tobaccoites, universal health care is "bad" in junos opinion because nationalized/socialized health care pushes people to stop using tobacco (juno correct me if i am wrong but that is how i interpreted your comments)

i am a fan of nationalized health care personally though, im a "democrat", i support obama, im ok with taxes as long as stuff gets done that is good for everyone, and i want my guns and tobacco, virginia democrats FTW

-matt
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  #19  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 03:38 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

So cigarettes are a good distraction...fair enough.
And I do see where hes going...
But i don't think hookah would ever warrant the attentions of anti-tobacco groups, cigarettes are just so much more of a problem.
The small number of people that would fight to keep hookah were it to be banned, is the reason that it wouldn't BE banned.
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  #20  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 03:58 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

Quote:
Originally Posted by squareben View Post
So cigarettes are a good distraction...fair enough.
And I do see where hes going...
But i don't think hookah would ever warrant the attentions of anti-tobacco groups, cigarettes are just so much more of a problem.
The small number of people that would fight to keep hookah were it to be banned, is the reason that it wouldn't BE banned.
maybe but i think also part of it is that its a "cultural item", the perception is that people do not smoke it every day since there are lounges for it, and also it makes it seem like people are not/cannot be addicted to it (what ever that argument is not important at this point of the discussion) since its at a gathering place.

im becoming a huge believer in the whole "if its natural you can use it" even though i dont use anything other than tobacco but really, most of the issues we have with substances is that people mess with them so much that they then cause issues (cigs having 4000 chemicals, dip having 400, etc). i really dont think natural plain tobacco is any where near as bad for you as a modern cig

-matt
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  #21  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 04:09 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

I would agree. I think most natural stuff is fine. Again, anything in moderation.
You just have to remember that anything, natural or otherwise, is going to be bad for you if you have too much. Thats why i'm going to stick to smoking my hookah only occasionally.
And i totally agree about cigarettes - You know they contain cyanide?
What i would like to know is: Exactly WHAT is in shisha?
...Whats in tobacco for that matter :P
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  #22  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 04:24 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

Quote:
Originally Posted by squareben View Post
I would agree. I think most natural stuff is fine. Again, anything in moderation.
You just have to remember that anything, natural or otherwise, is going to be bad for you if you have too much. Thats why i'm going to stick to smoking my hookah only occasionally.
And i totally agree about cigarettes - You know they contain cyanide?
What i would like to know is: Exactly WHAT is in shisha?
...Whats in tobacco for that matter :P
it would be very easy to do just need to find some one that will allow us to have access to a gas chromatograph. you put in an organic sample and it heats up, as each chemical in the sample is burned off it registers exactly what it is and the concentration of the sample. awesome machine, i do have a friend that works with these but theres no way i could pull off getting him to run samples for me (seeing as a- hes 5 states away, b- its not his machine to do what he wants with, and c-hes busy doing real work)

-matt
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  #23  
Old August 23rd, 2008, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: Juno Discusses "Big Tobacco"

I'm sure theres someone who could tell us...
Mention to your friend how much you'd appreciate it if, on a slow day, he did you a lil favour XD
I kid...theres probably a website that will tell us :P
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