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**Ramadan**

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  #1  
Old September 13th, 2007, 08:30 PM
hookahpimp
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Default **Ramadan**

well its about that for the sun to go down and the food to go in... my belly that is.. and the charcoal to be lit up... i have been dieing to smoke all day i realy dont care for the food but me with no hookah all day.... "now thats rough""


any one eles feel as i do?
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  #2  
Old September 13th, 2007, 09:00 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

my egyptian friend is also fasting u should meet him hes pretty chill and is full of business ideas
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  #3  
Old September 13th, 2007, 09:39 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

I totally agree! I haven't had a chance to smoke my hookah in a few days now! You can bet that I will be smoking some AF Grape tomorrow night! But not until after I make dinner for me and ZVT, my turn to cook!
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  #4  
Old September 13th, 2007, 09:52 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sambooka
I totally agree! I haven't had a chance to smoke my hookah in a few days now! You can bet that I will be smoking some AF Grape tomorrow night! But not until after I make dinner for me and ZVT, my turn to cook!
no hookah for a few days? sounds like hard times compared to what i just went thru.

just now i was sitting in front of the computer smoking king's sour apple while listening to chocolate rain (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwTZ2xpQwpA) and my hookah got knocked over...

so im on the floor trying to get the coals before they burn my carpet and cleaning up ash, while that chocolate rain song is playing. what a experience..
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  #5  
Old October 25th, 2007, 03:25 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

I am rather ignorant about Islam so perhaps someone could explain why they fast on Ramadan and why not smoking should have anything to do with fasting?
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  #6  
Old October 25th, 2007, 04:57 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

its any sort of pleasure i thought. you cant have any of that so since hookah is enjoyable or pleasurable you cant smoke. im not positive thought so dont take my word for it.
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  #7  
Old October 25th, 2007, 10:07 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

I do know that you can't put anything in your mouth in public during the day. Maybe that also has something to do with it?
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  #8  
Old October 26th, 2007, 11:48 AM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

i believe its a sinful pleasure, therefor you cannot do it. im not sure though
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  #9  
Old October 30th, 2007, 11:59 PM
Hajo Flettner
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

Although it looks like I need to get brought up to speed on this issue by someone that is a practicing Muslim it seems that Ramadan is not just a fast but a denial of any pleasure as one focuses upon some great pious goal. Anyone here on good terms with a Muslim theologian?
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  #10  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 07:24 AM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

Islam, for the most part, does not view hookah as a sinful pleasure.
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  #11  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 11:42 AM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

That is my understanding in that I have known several devoted Muslims that are big time narghile fans. Still, I never talked religion with them so I don't know how they view it in religious terms. What we need is a website that has clerics from all the big sects and you can email them questions.
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  #12  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

The fast is intended to be an exacting act of deep personal worship in which Muslims seek a raised level of closeness to God. The act of fasting is said to redirect the heart away from worldly activities, its purpose being to cleanse the inner soul and free it from harm. Properly observing the fast is supposed to induce a comfortable feeling of peace and calm. It also allows Muslims to practice self-discipline, sacrifice, and sympathy for those who are less fortunate, intended to make Muslims more generous and charitable.
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  #13  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 12:42 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaJohn
The fast is intended to be an exacting act of deep personal worship in which Muslims seek a raised level of closeness to God. The act of fasting is said to redirect the heart away from worldly activities, its purpose being to cleanse the inner soul and free it from harm. Properly observing the fast is supposed to induce a comfortable feeling of peace and calm. It also allows Muslims to practice self-discipline, sacrifice, and sympathy for those who are less fortunate, intended to make Muslims more generous and charitable.
It would seem that fasting is viewed by Muslims in the same light as it is by devoted Christians. Based upon what you have said, it appears that giving up smoking during Ramadan is an exercise in self-discipline rather then viewing tobacco as sinful per say or as a food group. Instead I am guessing that they view tobacco as an indulgence as as such it should be given up during religious events.
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  #14  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:55 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

Quote:
Originally Posted by ghostofdavid
Islam, for the most part, does not view hookah as a sinful pleasure.
I'm going to have to disagree. Ive heard this from a lot of Muslims, Now it maybe be down keyed a lot because of the cultural familiarity of it. but its still viewed as a sin. Please do not spew false facts, it makes us all become more ignorant.

"Recent Opinions of Scholars

In more recent times, as these dangers of tobacco use have come to be proven beyond any doubt, scholars have become more unanimous in pronouncing tobacco use clearly haram (forbidden) to believers. They now use the strongest terms to condemn this habit. For example: "In view of the harm caused by tobacco, growing, trading in and smoking of tobacco are judged to be haram (forbidden). The Prophet, peace be upon him, is reported to have said, 'Do not harm yourselves or others.' Furthermore, tobacco is unwholesome, and God says in the Qur'an that the Prophet, peace be upon him, 'enjoins upon them that which is good and pure, and forbids them that which is unwholesome'" (Permanent Committee of Academic Research and Fatwa, Saudi Arabia)."
http://islam.about.com/gi/dynamic/of...s/smoking.html

Just a 2 second search brings a ton of websites suggesting islam is against smoking. Just because a christian has premarital sex doesnt mean its ok in their beliefs. but maybe they should follow their beliefs more closely if they really do believe in it.
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  #15  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:28 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

Iíd tend to agree with you poking after poking around the web for a while. However, I have conversing some Islamic people I know it appears that the matter is not so clear cut (it never is with religion) as Iíve been lent some texts that talk about this matter. Apparently several famous Muslim theologians including Seyyed Hossein Nasr, Mohammad Hashim Kamali and Sukri Husayn Ramic all are ( or were in the case of Nasr) avid narghile fans. My cursory readings those far seem to indicate that smoking is not a sin providing it is not intoxicating nor is tobacco unwholesome as it is a natural product given by God. Instead they condemn over indulgence/gluttony no matter what it may involve (i.e. food, drink, tobacco, jewelry etc) Nasr and Kamali both said that smoking can enhance quite contemplation and as a result stimulate an interest in things other then the profane.

I will have to read more to be certain but that seems to be the crux of the matter.
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  #16  
Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:51 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

The unfortunate thing is that ALL religion is man made. Too many twists have been put on religion that make "Religion" almost offensive.

People will believe what they want to believe and all of it is open to interpretation. Jim Jones convinced his flock to drink tainted Kool-Aid...

The Roman Popes ordered the slaying of many during the "Holy Wars.." I am sure it was not God's intent.....

Therefore, to slice apart any religion is futile as those who abide by the laws interpreted by man will defend those laws to their graves.

I remember reading the last chapter in Revelation that says something to the effect of that was the end of God's word...nothing to be taken away and nothing to be added.

Yet...how many things have actually been added or taken away to fit a particular religion?

I have a difficult time with ANY religion...especially when you can show where man tries to add in his own ideas to make the religion palatable for himself.
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  #17  
Old November 4th, 2007, 11:17 AM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

I've been doing more reading and it seems that PerznPerversion is basically right in that most modern clerical opinion is anti-smoking and view it as a sinful indigence. Clearly, most clerics have come out against it and would rather you not do it. Still, it seems that once one over looks the radical types (the Wahhabist, the Salafists, the Taliban etc) tobacco is tolerated far more in the Muslim then it is in the West and taxed far less as well.

Also, the view that smoking is sinful is a recent development as far as I can see with virtually no Muslim religious leaders complaining about it until the last 30 years. As mentioned before, I have found writing by several major theologians that reject the anti-smoking stance. It seems to me that the recent anti-smoking sentiment in Islamic circles is a result of extensive secular efforts to demonize tobacco.
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  #18  
Old November 4th, 2007, 08:11 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

well also you have to realize tobacco is sort of a new thing for the middle east, basically it is a drug and it does harm you. therefore your not supposed to do it lol. Also i believe the effects of it were not really known at that time. I believe in the early 1900s America used to say that cigarettes were good your health, brings down stress and blahblahblah. lol

religion demonizes everything, so lets get over that fact :-P
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  #19  
Old November 5th, 2007, 12:50 AM
Hajo Flettner
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

Tobacco is not a drug because a drug is intended to intoxicate and used for that purpose. While it is true that tobacco use does have substantial risks associated with it those risks have been wildly overstated. Like so many things, moderation combined with a healthy lifestyle is the key to risk reduction.

You are wrong about Cigarettes being seen as healthy so you may want to read a book called For Your Own Good by Jacob Sullum that discusses various tobacco bans throughout history (even death sentences) so what we are currently dealing with is nothing new but mostly hysteria, societal control, junk science and a vastly overblown public health risk.

I don't have problems with religion per say and while Islam is not for me I respect and encourage some forms of traditional Islam in traditionally Islamic nations. Personally, I have more sympathy for secular pan Arabic nationalism as the best means to keep imperialism at bay.

As to Ramadam I am just trying to get a handle on the rationale for certain traditions. By the way, I was reading some stuff about the sunset of the Ottoman empire and came upon several accounts of Sufi clerics smoking vast amounts of Jurak and Tombac during Ramadan so the current notions of giving up tobacco are pretty new.
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  #20  
Old November 5th, 2007, 02:37 PM
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

Tobacco is indeed a drug, it has nicotine in it. which is considered a drug and is well known as that. It alters the mind and body. I smoke cigarettes for the buzz and i believe alot of people do it for that reason also.

Drug:

1 aobsolete : a substance used in dyeing or chemical operations b: a substance used as a medication or in the preparation of medication caccording to the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (1): a substance recognized in an official pharmacopoeia or formulary (2): a substance intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease (3): a substance other than food intended to affect the structure or function of the body (4): a substance intended for use as a component of a medicine but not a device or a component, part, or accessory of a device2: a commodity that is not salable or for which there is no demand óused in the phrase drug on the market3: something and often an illegal substance that causes addiction, habituation, or a marked change in consciousness
http://webster.com/dictionary/drug

Sufis are basically muslim mystics and are not the popular.. The biggest sects are Sunnis and Shiites. so yea i dont believe that pertains to this. Basically it is a drug and like in all major religions, they try to protect you and other people. Health>Tobacco is what most clerics do say and its basically common sense as well.
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  #21  
Old November 5th, 2007, 04:57 PM
Hajo Flettner
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Default Re: **Ramadan**

As to Islam I agree that most authorities will agree with you. I also know that Sunnis and Shiites are the major sects although those terms are so broad they are not much use as both sects have dozens of major divisions. While Sufis are not very significant the fellows I mentioned earlier are well known authorities on religious law and are mainstream scholars rather then Sufis. Still, Iíd say you 80% right on the matter of clerical opinion.

Addiction is a complicated and the extent to which a substance is addictive is something that a dictionary is simply not up to covering. I don't buy into the notion that tobacco is a drug for the simple reason that millions of ex-smokers became that way with no professional help or medicines whatsoever and no other addictive drug can claim that. I could also point out that a lot differences exist as to what constitutes a pharmacological definition of addictiveness and that some of my old posts dealt with that topic. I suggest you read the Sullum book I mentioned earlier as well as the vast pile of resources that point out the ubiquitous and common problems with tobacco research. Searching my old posts will give you a lot of reading material. After you go through some of the material Iíve cited in the past Iíll be happy to debate the matter with you but until youíve considered critiques of the popularly accepted material debating such topics will likely be fruitless.
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