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Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

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  #1  
Old February 17th, 2009, 04:14 PM
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Default Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Well, I have just been mulling this around for a while. But here it goes.

The product that we call "smoke" is a mixture of Glycerin (or glycerol), burning sugar (from the honey), and some tobacco. Not enough tobacco is actually cooked (or burned) to produce visible tar (as we know it), so in that regard, hookah smoking is much safer, can can be compared with Electronic Cigarette.

In the E-Cig, the product used to create "vapor" is propylene glycol. PG is a converted form of Glycol (a process that uses a catalyst). Glycol is absorbs water from the air, and when it is super-heated, I would suppose that it's vapor would very easily absorb water (from a container of water). When we pull through the hose, we pull down the vapor form of glycerol, mixed with a flavoring, binded with lipids from the honey (if there is honey), mixed with a mellow form of burning tobacco product (which is very saturated). The glycerol absorbs water as it is broken apart from the surface of the water into bubbles. This is what gives us the very thick vaporous clouds, that don't sting our throat. This humidified glycerol also sticks to the inside of our hoses, stems, vases, bowls, and especially our grommets (which causes silicone Mya grommets to feel greasy after a session). This filmy stuff is actually a lubricant, and washes off easily with water. Glycerine by itself would cause bistering on any membrane of the human body that contains water becasue of it's absorbtion properties.

When we add more heat, the tobacco itself starts to actually burn, causing the vapor we inhale to actually become a higher percentage of hot tobacco particulate smoke, which in turn burns our throats. The feeling of Nicotine on the throat is different, it is also a "burning", but more tingly than hot. This is what one experiences with Tangiers tobacco.

Tangiers tobacco is unwashed and contains mostly black tobacco product (which has a very robust flavor by itself). Tangiers contains Glycerin (plant-derived) and molasses (black), and also a high amount of nicotine. The nicotine causes the throat tingle, but so does the burning tobacco (which is easily burned because of how much there is), and also the bunring sugar in the molasses. This is why one must be very careful with Tangiers, and if there was no flavor one would be able to simply taste the tobacco flavor mixed with the sweet molasses (which would be fantastic).

Nakhla is just a very light flavored golden tobacco that has a very mellow flavor, but it is slightly washed, other wise it would be as hard to manage as Tangiers and you would in fact taste the tobacco slightly. However, Nakhla uses Honey and lighter, mroe natural flavors to create their finished product, which is why it is so popular.

Other tobacco products, Starbuzz/Fantasia/Al Fakher/etc. wash their tobacco of all nicotine. This makes the leaves themselves very flimsy and crumpled (they are basically destoyed) and utterly flavorless. All this is done in a factory, leaning towards mass production over quality. These leaves have absolutely no value in the over-all product. All they can do is burn, and casue a burning flavor to appear. They add no flavor to the shisha, and even though the glycerin isn't burning, the tobacco is, so it has no point.

What I was thinking, as well, is that just a mixture of Glycerine or Propylene Glycol (I would go with the latter) and flavor could be used in a hookah. It would be much easier to deal with heat management, you would get even bigger "clouds" if that is your thing, and the flavor would be great as well. I would say PG would be safer because it is non-irritating. The over-all cost of shisha would go down because companies would no longer need to waste money on tobacco. This does not relate to HookahHookah, Nakhla, or Tangiers.



These are some things I was thinking about. . I am going to try this glycerin thing out I think. I'm gonna try to find Prop Glycol first though.
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  #2  
Old February 17th, 2009, 04:30 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

interesting thoughts - let us know. I do know that smoking is generally, no matter what you smoke, about the relaxing effect of tobacco and nicotine. Even if its just a small washed about, the nicotine is still there and still produces a bodily effect. If you lose that, I think you'll find that the tobaccoless shisha is not too popular.
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  #3  
Old February 17th, 2009, 04:31 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

i smell a new brand of shisha on the rise.
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  #4  
Old February 17th, 2009, 04:36 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddhizzle View Post
interesting thoughts - let us know. I do know that smoking is generally, no matter what you smoke, about the relaxing effect of tobacco and nicotine. Even if its just a small washed about, the nicotine is still there and still produces a bodily effect. If you lose that, I think you'll find that the tobaccoless shisha is not too popular.
All washed shisha has absolutely no nicotine and no flavor coming from the tobacco.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 04:39 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

But the washed tobacco helps hold everything together. I would think that smoking Goop wouldnt work thaat well unless you had a way to get air through it better, or using some synthetic tobacco or herbs that are more tolerable to heat.
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  #6  
Old February 17th, 2009, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

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Originally Posted by Coldgr33ntea View Post
But the washed tobacco helps hold everything together. I would think that smoking Goop wouldnt work thaat well unless you had a way to get air through it better, or using some synthetic tobacco or herbs that are more tolerable to heat.
See that's the thing. The tobacco is being used as a filler.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 05:50 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

According to the ingredients Nakhla does not contain honey. It is a moassel. Molasses tobacco appears on most every box. Not arguing your points just saying. Oh and PG is shunned by pipe smokers. They call it poison and shun just about any product they believe contains it. Altadis in particular is named often in pipe forums as a user of PG.
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Last edited by Dunkel; February 17th, 2009 at 05:52 PM.
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  #8  
Old February 17th, 2009, 05:53 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

you're sure washed tobacco brands remove ALL the nicotine?
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  #9  
Old February 17th, 2009, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

washed tobacco is .03-.05% nicotine. unwashed is .4-.5%. Its small, but the nicotine is still there. smoking hookah would not be as relaxing without nicotine, thats what it does.
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  #10  
Old February 17th, 2009, 06:11 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Oh no, these are all just thoughts first of all.

PG is used in electric cigs, that's it though. But I think the point of nicotine is so you can actually feel it's effects. When tobacco is washed, you can't feel that effect. So what's the point other than as a filler?
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  #11  
Old February 17th, 2009, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post
All washed shisha has absolutely no nicotine and no flavor coming from the tobacco.
You may be on to something as far as the "no flavor coming from the tobacco" aspect is concerned, but there's definitely a little bit of nicotine left over. If there was absolutely zero nicotine left in SB, AF, etc, people would not even feel a 'mild' buzz from them. (which I know people that definitely do)
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  #12  
Old February 17th, 2009, 06:16 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post
Oh no, these are all just thoughts first of all.

PG is used in electric cigs, that's it though. But I think the point of nicotine is so you can actually feel it's effects. When tobacco is washed, you can't feel that effect. So what's the point other than as a filler?
when I first started smoking I could feel minimal nicotine buzz from AF. Your body just gets used to it, like with cigs. I was thinking about this idea myself a few months ago when I had the idea of beef jerky based/flavored shisha LOL. The fact that you don't taste the tobacco makes you wonder what else you can use to make shisha. or like your idea of just smoking the juice itself. I might sacrifice some tobacco and squeeze the juice out into a phunnel and see what happens.
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  #13  
Old February 17th, 2009, 06:20 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

I started out on HH and thought there was no buzz from a hookah. Then I smoked Nakhla and felt it and was extremely surprised. It is impossible to feel a buzz from Sb or fantasia or HH. if you do it is most likely not the shisha.
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Old February 17th, 2009, 06:22 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

intresting !!
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  #15  
Old February 18th, 2009, 09:43 AM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post
I started out on HH and thought there was no buzz from a hookah. Then I smoked Nakhla and felt it and was extremely surprised. It is impossible to feel a buzz from Sb or fantasia or HH. if you do it is most likely not the shisha.
tell my sister theres no buzz from fantasia haha! i refuse to let her smoke nakhla because i think she would seriously die from it lol!

I too smell a new brand comin on lol
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  #16  
Old February 18th, 2009, 10:01 AM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenSilk View Post
I started out on HH and thought there was no buzz from a hookah. Then I smoked Nakhla and felt it and was extremely surprised. It is impossible to feel a buzz from Sb or fantasia or HH. if you do it is most likely not the shisha.
yeah, more like lack of oxygen or something. me or my friends don't feel a buzz from sb
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  #17  
Old February 18th, 2009, 12:46 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

I haven't really looked into them, but isn't the flavor without nicotine pretty much the theory behind herbal shisha?
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  #18  
Old February 18th, 2009, 01:42 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

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I haven't really looked into them, but isn't the flavor without nicotine pretty much the theory behind herbal shisha?
no the theory behind herbal shisha is that there is no nicotine/tobacco in it at all, it has nothing to do with taste
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Old February 18th, 2009, 01:43 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Nicotine still exists in washed brands. Enough to give a minor buzz. There is no way to remove all of the nicotine. It's like decaffeinated coffee. It still contains caffeine just a far lesser amount than normal coffee.

Glycerine is a safe product and once mixed properly loses it's hygroscopic properties. That is why glycerin is only a minor part of shisha tobacco and molasses or honey still constitute the majority. If you smoked just glycerin it could be an issue.

the smoke does not pick anything up from the water it just helps to cool and condense it. When I first started I tested how it would smoke without water. Still good just not nearly as cool. If the glycerin was still taking in water it would give our throats and lungs burns.

Also anyone who has smoked with too much glycerin added to the mix can tell you that no matter how much flavor there is it can not mask the flavor and odd mouth feel of the glycerin. A pure glycerin smoke would e a terrible idea.

There is more to respond to and refute but my computer is about to run out of battery. I will respond later with more. Sorry to sound like a downer. Just answering from my knowledge and experience. Most of what was said in this thread seems to be conjecture and assumptions. Some dangerous ones at that.
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  #20  
Old February 18th, 2009, 03:10 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBungle View Post
I might sacrifice some tobacco and squeeze the juice out into a phunnel and see what happens.
there's an interesting idea, if i had a phunnel bowl i'd definitely give this a try.
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  #21  
Old February 18th, 2009, 05:40 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

Not a pure glycerin smoke, just a smoke with glycerin/honey/flavoring and no tobacco. I can honestly say I get no buzz from from SB, so therefore it's basically the same idea of decaf cofee except for the fact that there's no tobacco taste, unlike the fact there is a taste in decaf.
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  #22  
Old February 18th, 2009, 05:55 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

All of this talk makes me want to go into the lab(the kitchen) and try to make something up.
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  #23  
Old February 18th, 2009, 05:58 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

i thought the exact same thing (just not as in depth technical but same exact idea) a while ago and keep thinking about it.

personally i wouldnt count HH in with nakhla and tangiers, but that might be my personal preference
-matt
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  #24  
Old February 18th, 2009, 06:38 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

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Originally Posted by mattathayde View Post
i thought the exact same thing (just not as in depth technical but same exact idea) a while ago and keep thinking about it.

personally i wouldnt count HH in with nakhla and tangiers, but that might be my personal preference
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  #25  
Old February 18th, 2009, 06:39 PM
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Default Re: Some Hookah Thinking... Huh...

i dont think honey is used by a lot of manufactures. al waha and romman i know do (which is why they taste like crap to me)

i think taste also depends what kind of cure the tobacco leaves are, and what kind of tobacco is used.
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