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My Idea

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  #1  
Old February 21st, 2009, 06:00 PM
AbusiveNapkin
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Default My Idea

Before you read, I do not know if there has been a thread for an idea like this one. I ask to refrain from flames, as I am new to this site.

So here's my idea:


The goal: Super-chilling the base of the hookah without having it crack/break.
The plan: Using an alternate method of chilling which does not break the vase.

According to my research, glass is 'safe' at lower temperatures, but when it gets to higher temperatures, meaning 600-900 degrees F. I found no such information about glass shattering at a point at freezing.

The items:
Liquid nitrogen: -321 degrees F.
Much too cold to handle safely, let alone breathing a liquid being chilled to that extent.
Fromhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2mj-Sq2oeo that video, you can see what happens when water meets liquid nitrogen.

Dry Ice: -109.3 degrees F.
I'm rather curious what happens when you put a stick of dry ice in the vase. What happens when you don't have the dry ice in direct contact with the vase.

So here's my plan, using a double boiler, only on a larger scale. Put the hookah in the smaller ***, along with room temperature water. In the second, larger ***. Add several sticks of dry ice, and room temperature water. Fill the smaller *** 1/2 way WITH the vase in the bowl, so you don't spill any water you displace it when the vase. And the larger bowl should only be filled about 1/4 of the way after you put the smaller *** in.

One thing I need to make clear, I HAVE NOT tried this before. And I cannot be held responsible for anything that goes wrong with your procedure or your equipment.




What do you all think about this? It's a questionable idea, but please refrain from flaming.
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  #2  
Old February 21st, 2009, 06:04 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

I dont think you should inhale dry ice in the vase, it seems very very unhealthy, actually Im sure this was posted like 5 months back something about dry ice, but I'm not TOO certain...anyhow, i dont think youre supposed to do that.
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  #3  
Old February 21st, 2009, 06:17 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

mixing dry ice with water creates carboxcylic acid (not a huge deal as it is in soda, but probably not a great thing...no idea what concentration of it you would end up with)......not the greatest idea....plus it dissolves very quickly in water
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  #4  
Old February 21st, 2009, 06:41 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

If it's not directly inhaled through the vase, how much of a danger is it? I've experimented with dry ice enough to know what the primary dangers are. Didn't exactly know what would happen when mixed and inhaled. (Thanks for the clarification bradedup).
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  #5  
Old February 21st, 2009, 06:46 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Actually, I know exactly how to put this into the right terms.
Have you ever used soda in the base before? like a cocacola? well if you do it straight from the can or bottle, it will burn your lungs when you inhale, if you wait for it to go flat, then you get the flavor without the burn, I'm thinking with dry ice you would get that burn, but much worse and...well a much cooler feeling burn too maybe.
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  #6  
Old February 21st, 2009, 06:48 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

if you really want to use dry ice i wouldn't mix it with the water......id pack it around the base, but lets look at a few key things here...

1. Ice and Water coexist at 0 degrees C, so you can make an ICE/WATER mixture that is 0 degrees
2. Dry ice is MUCH colder than that...at some point the water WILL start to freeze, even with the surface disruption with smoking, the water around the edges will freeze and encroach (at which point you run into a lot of problems)
3. supercooling smoke decreases the flavor presumably because the molecules are moving slower so less make contact with your taste buds....this is the same reason clouds appear bigger when they are cooler...they are moving slower
4. ... i feel like i had another point but i cant remember at the time being.

Last edited by bradedup; February 21st, 2009 at 06:51 PM.
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  #7  
Old February 21st, 2009, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by photolinger View Post
Actually, I know exactly how to put this into the right terms.
Have you ever used soda in the base before? like a cocacola? well if you do it straight from the can or bottle, it will burn your lungs when you inhale, if you wait for it to go flat, then you get the flavor without the burn, I'm thinking with dry ice you would get that burn, but much worse and...well a much cooler feeling burn too maybe.

agreed, if u mix it with water basically you are super carbonating your water.
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  #8  
Old February 21st, 2009, 06:53 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Ah, triple post, but I remember my third point.

If you do want to supercool your smoke, probably best point to do so is in the stem, because there you are not limited by the water being unable to safely go below 0 degrees and also by waters heat capacity. Water can absorb a LOT of energy, this is why bodies of water change temperature slowly and is also the cause of many of water's useful properties.

One last thing, don't freeze your throat.
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  #9  
Old February 21st, 2009, 07:12 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradedup View Post
If you do want to supercool your smoke, probably best point to do so is in the stem
Anecdotally, I have found this to be true. The coldest session I ever had was achieved by:

1) frozen stem (KM Ice Chamber)
2) ice and very cold water in the base
3) ice and salt mix in the ice chamber
4) placed hookah in cooler packed with ice

It was interesting for a few minutes and then, meh.

P.S. this has been covered a few times already, but I don't think you want to mess about with liquid nitrogen or dry ice. Unless you're trying to make the Darwin Awards
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  #10  
Old February 21st, 2009, 08:57 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

he is not talking about putting the dry ice in the vase so it will not be inhaled. He is talking about putting it around the base to cool the water.
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  #11  
Old February 21st, 2009, 09:05 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Last time I checked... Dry Ice + Water + Cover = Boom?
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  #12  
Old February 21st, 2009, 09:08 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

One of the issues is that when dry ice is added to water it evaporates and makes carbon dioxide and rapidly expands. This would cause everything you were breathing to be CO2 and that is deadly. The pressure inside the base would be positive and therefor the hose would always be blowing out and you could not actually draw from the stem. If it is outside the vase then you will be filling the are that you are smoking in with CO2 and that is dangerous too.

One other point is that once you chill the smoke that much you really hurt the flavor. Cooler smoke is nice but at a sacrifice of quality of flavor.
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  #13  
Old February 21st, 2009, 09:09 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Also it's not that much cooler than normal ice would actually make it when you talk about temperature v time.
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  #14  
Old February 22nd, 2009, 12:19 AM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by kalutika View Post
Also it's not that much cooler than normal ice would actually make it when you talk about temperature v time.
[FONT=Arial, Times, sans-serif]-109.3F or -78.5C brrrrrr.[/FONT]
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  #15  
Old February 22nd, 2009, 08:27 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

My attempt in putting a very small amount of dry ice in the vase just resulted in it melting all at once. Couldn't even take a hit till the vapors were gone as it tasted exactly like photolinger described it, fresh soda in the vase.
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  #16  
Old February 22nd, 2009, 08:39 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebonhand View Post
My attempt in putting a very small amount of dry ice in the vase just resulted in it melting all at once. Couldn't even take a hit till the vapors were gone as it tasted exactly like photolinger described it, fresh soda in the vase.

Yeah...dry ice reacts violently in water so it will not keep long. ^_^ Lots of bubble action.
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  #17  
Old February 22nd, 2009, 10:48 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

I'm not really planning something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KscCY...eature=related
Just change the cup out for a hookah and you have an alcoholic hookah.


The dry will NOT be in the hookah vase, not even touching it.


Best way I can put it. bLook at this picture:
http://www.alanskitchen.com/Terms/Im...ble_Boiler.jpg

In the *** with the chocolate, that would be the bowl with the hookah vase in it.
The bigger *** is where the dry ice would be. Along with some water. The water and the dry ice would create a nice smoke effect, and freeze the *** which the hookah is in.
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  #18  
Old February 22nd, 2009, 10:56 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbusiveNapkin View Post
I'm not really planning something like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KscCY...eature=related
Just change the cup out for a hookah and you have an alcoholic hookah.


The dry will NOT be in the hookah vase, not even touching it.


Best way I can put it. bLook at this picture:
http://www.alanskitchen.com/Terms/Im...ble_Boiler.jpg

In the *** with the chocolate, that would be the bowl with the hookah vase in it.
The bigger *** is where the dry ice would be. Along with some water. The water and the dry ice would create a nice smoke effect, and freeze the *** which the hookah is in.
Fairly certain dry ice does not react in a way to make the alcohol gaseous. Conservation of energy pretty much destroys that idea....Gaseous alcohol is a high energy state, the alcohol is not going to gain energy from the dry ice, it is going to lose it. He was huffing straight CO2.
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  #19  
Old February 23rd, 2009, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradedup View Post
Fairly certain dry ice does not react in a way to make the alcohol gaseous. Conservation of energy pretty much destroys that idea....Gaseous alcohol is a high energy state, the alcohol is not going to gain energy from the dry ice, it is going to lose it. He was huffing straight CO2.
That wasn't the point of his post.

If I were to do this I wouldn't add water with the dry ice at all at all, I'd put the hookah in a bucket then put dry ice in with it.
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  #20  
Old February 23rd, 2009, 01:45 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

kinda to lazy to read all of this or the idea in detail but here is some more info on glass.

glass does not break because of the temp no matter what any one wants to tell you, it is be cause of the thermal shock of one part being hot and the other cold. when glass is made it must cool evenly and slowly (if you cool it in a controlled manner fast you get tempered glass which is very had and will shatter in small rounded pieces when it breaks). glass (as long as it was properly made and annealed ) it can take a lot of extreme temps and a good amount of thermal shock.

and a random fact, glass breaks more easily when it is warm than when its cold (warm/cold being relative terms when working glass hot, so hot being 1300F -1400F probably and cold being 1000-1100F even though it can crack when its still a little soft)

the real thing is getting the glass to the temp slowly, when we need to reheat a piece of glass it usually takes a few hours going from 100*F in the shop temp to the 950-1000F needed to pick it back up, if the piece is thinner than 1/2 of an inch you can probably get away with 30mins.

but once glass is annealed at at roomtemp i am not sure how slow you need to chill it, ill check today and see if my prof knows

-matt
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  #21  
Old February 23rd, 2009, 02:58 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Dry ice can kill you if inhaled so don't mess with it. Also, if the smoke is too cold you'll kill the flavour. I guess that if you want a cooler smoke a well designed ice chamber and crushed ice in the base should take care of it. I tried a super chilled deal made with plastic jugs, Styrofoam and a bunch glycol pumped around (I didn't build the thing) and it basically killed the flavour.
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  #22  
Old February 23rd, 2009, 06:35 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hajo Flettner View Post
Dry ice can kill you if inhaled so don't mess with it. Also, if the smoke is too cold you'll kill the flavour. I guess that if you want a cooler smoke a well designed ice chamber and crushed ice in the base should take care of it. I tried a super chilled deal made with plastic jugs, Styrofoam and a bunch glycol pumped around (I didn't build the thing) and it basically killed the flavour.
its official...hajo has done and seen everything there is do/see in the hookah world.
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  #23  
Old February 23rd, 2009, 07:00 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

if you want a cold smoke just pack a bowl with mint shisha ^_^
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  #24  
Old February 23rd, 2009, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2guy View Post
if you want a cold smoke just pack a bowl with mint shisha ^_^

wouldn't that be a minty smoke?

^_^
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  #25  
Old February 23rd, 2009, 10:11 PM
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Default Re: My Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradedup View Post
wouldn't that be a minty smoke?

^_^
depends what you mix it with and what brand you use, if you mix a little in a lot of the time you just get the cool and very little mint.

-matt
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